Throw away / loss of lag pressure?

[jlcowper]

I am new to the site and purchased the DVD and worked on basic motion. After a few hundred of those my handicap dropped from a 10 to about a 5. My irons I hit well and feel like they are consistent, but my driver hooks a lot. I keep trying to ensure that I am not flipping, but no consistancy like the irons. The video I posted has a ton of shaft bend which I don't see on the pros. Is this because I am doing throw away or loss of lag pressure. Is there any posts that tell me how to improve this with my driver so that it is bent the other way instead of forward?

Thank you very much for your feedback in advance. JC

[jlcowper]

Wow that was much harder to see then I thought. When viewing it in slow motion at impact the shaft at my hands is pointed behind the ball (don't seem to be flipping), but there is a huge "C" in the shaft as the club head bends forward to hit the ball.




Again thank you for your help!

[O.B.Left]

The shaft does kick forward and is not an indication of Throwaway necessarily. For iron shots the impact with the ground bends it back, again. The difference in bend as seen in slow mo vs regular is the subject of some debate. Some think its an illusion or artifact some say its real. Either way assuming a properly fit shaft for your swing speed the cause of your hook lies elsewhere. Divergence between face angle and clubhead path is the place to start your search. Then search out the why associated with your faulty impact geometry. Work it backwards from Impact in other words.

As you do this sort of thing more and more you'll start to notice patterns and most likely
see root causes that have associated subconscious compensations that mask the root problem. For instance : a guy hitting weak fades. Diagnosis: open face at impact and outside in path. The face reverse rolling , steering vertical hinging as a compensation for the outside in path which hit the odd left to left shot prior to the compensation. Cure: fix the club head path and roll a horizontal hinge which brings back all the lost compression.

Ok you probably guessed this is one of my patterns if so, you are correct. In working on covering , trapping mid irons while hitting indoors over the winter, I'd over done it , not worked through my entire bag enough and had ingrained a slight over the top move . Which works for a mid iron kinda sorta but is a disaster with a less lofted club , long iron
or driver.

So there's cause, compensation, cure and the reason behind the whole sad affair. Well intentioned though it was. When I got my Horizontal back the balls starting flying again.

So if some guy on the range offers you a tip...... Ask yourself if it's a compensation or not. It may seem to work but only serve to further mask your real issue. Professional help speeds up the healing process.

Nice swing there jlcowper you look like you can bend a shaft pretty good

[KevCarter]

Solid answer O.B.

Looks like this man can flat out thump it. Could the problem with hooks come from such a big increase in axis tilt? I would love to see what would happen if we could get a little more centered at impact.

Kevin

[JTillery]

Ball position code red. Good looking motion but forced to stop and attempt to throw it in an effort to square face. Look how back on you a line up from the ball would be at the 0:01 frame. (If that's not correct, try the 0:02 frame as it is our last option) Move ball forward and that pivot will be a bit more centered where you can drive out that pressure you're wanting to feel instead of playing defense.

Sidebar: what cha feedin them calves? ??

[O.B.Left]

jlcowper These are some seriously good pros talking about your situation here.

Impact geometry but why? Hanging back , ball position ....maybe both? Maybe one is the root problem and the other is a compensation? Maybe not.

Maybe you hit so many shots in Basic and Acquired that it changed your ball position with the driver adversely? Moved it back? Maybe not.

Welcome to LBG hope you think this line of thinking is more revealing than some guy just saying you're doing this or that wrong ..... period. There's more to the story, often.

You gotta understand the impact geometry or you're doomed to suffer from its implications. If you tee the ball way way back of low point with a driver youre clubhead is traveling Forward, Down and Out to low point . Think about the OUT . With an iron , given the more upright plane angle and the loft etc it wont tend to hit a curve ball as much.......but with a driver, look out.

[KevCarter]

Ball position code red. Good looking motion but forced to stop and attempt to throw it in an effort to square face. Look how back on you a line up from the ball would be at the 0:01 frame. (If that's not correct, try the 0:02 frame as it is our last option) Move ball forward and that pivot will be a bit more centered where you can drive out that pressure you're wanting to feel instead of playing defense.

Sidebar: what cha feedin them calves? ??

Cause and effect, so obvious, yet I totally missed it. Great pair of eyes Mr. JT!

Kevin

[KevCarter]

Welcome to LBG hope you think this line of thinking is more revealing than some guy just saying you're doing this or that wrong ..... period. There's more to the story, often.

You gotta understand the impact geometry or you're doomed to suffer from its implications. If you tee the ball way way back of low point with a driver youre clubhead is traveling Forward, Down and Out to low point . Think about the OUT . With an iron , given the more upright plane angle and the loft etc it wont tend to hit a curve ball as much.......but with a driver, look out.

Love it OB !!!

Kevin

[innercityteacher]

Love it OB !!!

Kevin

Ha! My last two rounds have begun with being greedy for more distance and roundhousing all over the place.

Despite starting with 52 last week and 3 lost balls on the front 9 , I shot par on the last 5 holes and one birdie for a finishing 41 by keeping my balance and axis tilting. If the ball is too far forward I cannot maintain balance. As my axis tilt gets warmed up, I can slide the ball a little more forward for a very high fade with my driver.

[jlcowper]

Thank you for all the feedback. Sorry it took so long to reply I was working on the honeydo lists and that got me off track. I really do believe “The Golf Machine” is the real deal and I have read many of you guys post and they are truly amazing (and sometimes 11 pieces of chicken to many for me to understand) but really good stuff. I must have 30 books on golf (including the golf machine) and some DVD’s. They all give good information, but nothing even close to Lynn’s DVD. The last two rounds I shot 75 (Darkhorse) and 76 (Ancil Hoffman) which are very hard courses in Sacramento. I hit driver about three times a round and usually two of them are terrible hooks. My 3wood goes about 260-275 and I can usually keep it in play. Irons usually put me on the green (Thanks to basic motion) and my putter is solid.

OB Left – Thank you for all your feedback. I have ready many of your post and they are a gold mine. “Forward, Down and Out to low point . Think about the OUT . With an iron , given the more upright plane angle and the loft etc it won’t tend to hit a curve ball as much.......but with a driver, look out.” This seems like why I am doing wrong (among many other things), but I am unsure of the thing to correct it. Impact Dynamic. With the irons I feel like I know where it is, even with the 3 wood, but Driver I have clue. I have the Nunchuk shaft which is supposed to be like a double or triple X. I bought it thinking it was going to stop that bending of the shaft at impact. About 2-3 years ago I use to play a pull /cut and I would just swing as hard as I wanted and it would go a long way, but there wasn’t any feel to it or consistency. (So changing it really screwed me)

JTillery – I agree with you my ball is back to far. I moved it back because if I move it more forward the hook gets worse. This is surely a bad compensation on my part, but I am not sure how to get out of it. Maybe clearing hips faster? Right now I feel like I am trying to get my shaft in front of the ball at impact and have some dragging of the mop. I 100% feel like I am playing defense with my driver. I feel like I have to steer the driver compared to my three wood which seems natural. Side note: I use to play basketball before the knees went out. The calfs have stuck around for some reason (probably to carry my gut around)

KevCarter – Axis tilt? Am I leaning to far back at impact and that is why I am hooking? Should I be putting the ball more forward as JTillery is telling me and clearing the hips more and not leaning back as much? (Thank you for the feedback)

I decided to add two more videos so you can see the down the line view. My own assessment:

• Address – I am not sure how to get the shaft on the same plane with my forearm like Brian Gay does. (I have that video as well) I think it is because I am to tall, and I would have to bend over, which would not be good. Thoughts?
• Back swing a little flat below elbow plane (Working on that)
• Wrist bow at the top. Having a hard time fixing it. When I look over my shoulder in practice swing it looks flat to me, but in the video it doesn’t look as good. I must be compensating during the real swing because something else is out of sorts. Do I just need to work more on flying wedges with the video camera running? What should I see change in my right or left wrist to get me going in the right direction.
• I have some forward tilt and draw back on the swing (working on that for a while)
• I come down on the shoulder plane and I sometimes wonder if that makes it harder with the driver?

Duck Hook:

Straight Shot:

Anyway.. thank you so much for looking at my swing and giving me some help. I feel like I am just starting on my journey to actually know what I am doing. I agree 100% with a comment on the board that I saw. A 5 handicap has no idea what he is really doing.