Component Variation Tweener

[daluqfam]

Old Wise Ones, when identifying one's own Variants of Basic Stroke Components is it acceptable to classify one of your component selections as a "tweener"? For example, #3 Basic Stroke. I assess mine as a hybrid between a 10-3-A Punch and a 10-3-B Pitch. Can I develop a good, sound motion with a hybrid elbow position... or are they mutually exclusive to a type of pattern?

TIA David

[Daryl]

Old Wise Ones, when identifying one's own Variants of Basic Stroke Components is it acceptable to classify one of your component selections as a "tweener"? For example, #3 Basic Stroke. I assess mine as a hybrid between a 10-3-A Punch and a 10-3-B Pitch. Can I develop a good, sound motion with a hybrid elbow position... or are they mutually exclusive to a type of pattern?

TIA David

Well, in "Golf Life According to Homer Kelley", the Right Elbow location at Release determines the Alignment of the Hinge Pin in the Left Shoulder. It can be Aligned Vertical, Angled or Horizontal. So, unless your Elbow location causes some different Alignment, I wouldn't consider it a "Hybrid". What if you aren't Hinging anyway? What if you're Swiveling? Hmm?

[daluqfam]

Well, in "Golf Life According to Homer Kelley", the Right Elbow location at Release determines the Alignment of the Hinge Pin in the Left Shoulder. It can be Aligned Vertical, Angled or Horizontal. So, unless your Elbow location causes some different Alignment, I wouldn't consider it a "Hybrid". What if you aren't Hinging anyway? What if you're Swiveling? Hmm?

Daryl, as we've suspected on a previous thread, bad swiveling vs. good hinging could easily be part of my down stroke action. Your prompting, approximately 10days back, made me aware of swiveling's harmful consequences. For the last 6-7 practice sessions, I've focused on your "bucket hinging imagery" to reset the computer & correct this area. Could I still be swiveling. Sadly,the probability exist. David

Daryl, what hinge selections would be most compatible with a Punch Basic Stroke? And a Pitch Basic Stroke?

[Daryl]

Daryl, as we've suspected on a previous thread, bad swiveling vs. good hinging could easily be part of my down stroke action. Your prompting, approximately 10days back, made me aware of swiveling's harmful consequences. For the last 6-7 practice sessions, I've focused on your "bucket hinging imagery" to reset the computer & correct this area. Could I still be swiveling. Sadly,the probability exist. David

Daryl, what hinge selections would be most compatible with a Punch Basic Stroke? And a Pitch Basic Stroke?

I doubt that you're Swiveling. The Bucket Drill eliminates the "Hand Swivel" during Release and Impact. The Hand Swivel is correct for Start up Swivel and finish Swivel but not the Release Swivel. I recommend finding a Bucket and performing the exact drill. Imagery can deceive.

If you perform the Bucket drill with the Top of the Bucket Parallel to the Ground during Release and Impact, then you are not Swiveling. There may be some Alignments that aren't yet under your control or perhaps your Right Forearm Wedge is "Off Plane". The inside of your Right Wrist Bend should be facing Upwards for the Right Forearm Wedge to be On Plane.

Swingers use a "Pitch" Elbow, and it's in front of your Hip. It doesn't need to be very far in front. It could remain pretty close to the side, but it is in front of the side.

Hitting needs the "Punch" Elbow Location which is at your Side...Literally. The Elbow would feel very far back. I rarely see it.

The difference between Front and Side is that when the Elbow is in Front of the Hip it can move laterally (to the Left). When at your side, it cannot move laterally but it can Punch away from your side. Homer said the difference between Punch and Pitch is not that great but that the Pitch Elbow can move/slide much farther forward.

[Daryti]

Does swinger must use pitch elbow and hitter use punch? Elbow positions does not differ Hitter or Swinger?

[Daryl]

Does swinger must use pitch elbow and hitter use punch? Elbow positions does not differ Hitter or Swinger?

Loading Action determines Elbow Location. Elbow Location determines Hinge Pin Alignment when the #3 Accumulator is controlled by the On Plane Right Forearm Wedge seeking its Angle of Approach. So Yes, Swingers use Throwout which Aligns the Horizontal Hinge and Hitters use Driveout which Aligns an Angled Hinge Pin.

The Physics of Hinging is, that, Hitting or Swinging, “Roll” is actually imparted by the turning torso and/or the orbiting Arms per 2-K#4 and 2-K#5 as described in 10-18. Practice these motions first with open Hands per Chapters 4 and 9. The point to be learned here is that the Club, because of the Flat Left Wrist, must always travel at the same RPM as the Arms and reproduce the Hinging inherent in the selected Lag Loading procedure (10-19) per 4-D, 9-2 and 9-3, regardless of Clubhead Extension velocity. See 2-P and 7-18.

However, those with educated Hands can use their Hands alone to create (mimic) any Hinge Action. This application is more effective for short shot procedures but it's truly an accomplishment. Mind in the Hands, Finesse.

The Hinges are actually “mounted” at the Left Shoulder but the real control comes with moving or holding the Left Wrist in the positions called for by the respective Hinge arrangements. The Hinge Action Control is required only from Impact to the end of the Follow-through. Except, of course, when the Stroke Pattern Wrist Action dictates otherwise.

[HungryBear]

Loading Action determines Elbow Location. Elbow Location determines Hinge Pin Alignment when the #3 Accumulator is controlled by the On Plane Right Forearm Wedge seeking its Angle of Approach. So Yes, Swingers use Throwout which Aligns the Horizontal Hinge and Hitters use Driveout which Aligns an Angled Hinge Pin.



However, those with educated Hands can use their Hands alone to create (mimic) any Hinge Action. This application is more effective for short shot procedures but it's truly an accomplishment. Mind in the Hands, Finesse.

Not to be nit-picky but just to add couple of thoughts:
monitored by the #3pp when swinging on an arc of approach and driven by the #1pp on the angle of approach when hitting.

Educated hands are appropriate to all shots- chip to full- .

There are 2 trhreads above that could also be helpful to this discussion, the plane and sequenced release.

HB

[Yoda]

Old Wise Ones, when identifying one's own Variants of Basic Stroke Components is it acceptable to classify one of your component selections as a "tweener"? For example, #3 Basic Stroke. I assess mine as a hybrid between a 10-3-A Punch and a 10-3-B Pitch. Can I develop a good, sound motion with a hybrid elbow position... or are they mutually exclusive to a type of pattern?

TIA David

Rarely do we mortals perform any of the cataloged Variations perfectly. In HB's colorful language -- -- almost all of our efforts are "tweeners."

That fact does not detract from the Variation.

Or from our own attempts.

It is merely where humanity and perfection collide.

[12 piece bucket]

Does swinger must use pitch elbow and hitter use punch? Elbow positions does not differ Hitter or Swinger?

Mr. Kelley defined hitting as pushing and swinging as pulling....however...you gotta define WHAT is being pushed/pulled....in the case of golf it would be the sweetspot or the longitudinal cog....from there you gotta select your method and determine HOW would you best accomplish the selected pulling or pulling procedure...the how has is basis in the various "components" relationship to the object being pushed or pulled...hands are attached to the club and hands are attached to the forearms which are attached to the humorous bones via the elbows....

thus inorder to align the hands (and their pressure points) to push or pull...you must align the right forearm to the sweetspot and thereby aligning/positioning the right elbow to the loading procedure .... if you were PULLING an arrow out of a quiver on your back your elbow would lead and your forearm would align to the procedure respectively....if you were hitting a slapshot (pushing) you would align your right forearm and therefore elbow to support a pushing motion....

In addition the sweetspot must be oriented to the shaft and plane of motion in away to be PUSHED or PULLED....a hockey slap shot will have the blade of the stick aligned essentially perpendicular to the plane of motion and thereby oriented to be PUSHED down the face of the plane....on the other hand if the sweetspot is going to be pulled it will be aligned differently to the plane of motion and the shaft...thus laying on the face of the plane of motion and oriented "in line" with the shaft rather than shut looking....

The pulling of the sweetspot and pushing of the sweetspot require different loading procedures and release motions to be most effective....swinging pulling alignments necessarily lend themselves to pitch elbow and sequenced release due to the selected loading and acceleration method of the sweetspot...right forearm aligned to pull....left wrist uncorking then rolling sequentially.....hitting aligns the sweetspot in a different way to the plane of motion to be pushed thus the right forearm must be oriented to PUSH...punch elbow...with the sweetspot oriented to the plane to be pushed...thereby dictating a simultaneous release of accumulators #3 and #2 which define the release motion according to Mr. Kelley.

bottom line to orient yourself to this procedure get a hockey stick...instinctively you will align your forearm elbow pivot etc. to push the hockey blade/puck...with the rectangular shaft your mind "knows" to take the blade back "shut" and to use your pivot and right forearm to "gather" and push the blade down the plane....you would look like a spazz from planet dingleberry if you turned your hockey blade to the face of the plane of motion....

see below...

[innercityteacher]

I doubt that you're Swiveling. The Bucket Drill eliminates the "Hand Swivel" during Release and Impact. The Hand Swivel is correct for Start up Swivel and finish Swivel but not the Release Swivel. I recommend finding a Bucket and performing the exact drill. Imagery can deceive.

If you perform the Bucket drill with the Top of the Bucket Parallel to the Ground during Release and Impact, then you are not Swiveling. There may be some Alignments that aren't yet under your control or perhaps your Right Forearm Wedge is "Off Plane". The inside of your Right Wrist Bend should be facing Upwards for the Right Forearm Wedge to be On Plane.

Swingers use a "Pitch" Elbow, and it's in front of your Hip. It doesn't need to be very far in front. It could remain pretty close to the side, but it is in front of the side.

Hitting needs the "Punch" Elbow Location which is at your Side...Literally. The Elbow would feel very far back. I rarely see it.

The difference between Front and Side is that when the Elbow is in Front of the Hip it can move laterally (to the Left). When at your side, it cannot move laterally but it can Punch away from your side. Homer said the difference between Punch and Pitch is not that great but that the Pitch Elbow can move/slide much farther forward.

Love this post!

ICT