Useful or just not the truth

[Thom]

What do you think of this advice?

In my book the difference is plane angles = flatter/more from the inside with the driver, steeper/less from the inside with the wedges.

Turning the plane or even "do a little loop" like this guy suggests, isn't it a very dangerous road to travel??

But then again the Hogan reference ....

What do you think?

[O.B.Left]

Nothing wrong with Rotating your Plane Line . I personally use the method he's describing with the Driver when Im hitting up on the ball ....... when I tee the ball forward of low point. I rotate my plane line to the right slightly if I wish to off set the fade tendency.

In regard to Hogan, while his stance line did go from open to closed ...it was not indicative of where his Plane Line was pointing. So, I do not believe Hogan tried to hit intentional straight shots very often and I really doubt he used the geometry as described in the video to do so. Thats a pretty big assumption. Man.

Trackman's measurements are probably spot on but the deductions derived there from are ....how should I say this....less precise. Thats ok though. Its a process right. So what. Ive got absolutely no problem with Trackman or any of those machines.. none , zero. Wish they had a usable $500 version actually.

[Daryl]

This video is total DRIBBLE. I admit that after 60 seconds I had to stop watching because I couldn't keep up with the errors.

[airair]

This video is total DRIBBLE. I admit that after 60 seconds I had to stop watching because I couldn't keep up with the errors.

such as?
(I just want to know, I'm not trying to be a wise guy etc.)

[JTillery]

I would love to hear what was seen as errors also.........

[Daryl]

“What do you need to do to become both a good “Driver” and a good “Iron” Player? Stop twisting the Clubshaft for Impact (Swivel) and start Hinging.

Drivers and Irons "Twist" Differently because their Centers of Gravity have different Locations. So by the time a Hacker gets a feel for the Center of Gravity of his Irons, he can't hit his Driver... Stop Twisting and Start using the "Right Forearm Angle of Approach". Otherwise, as soon as you break your $300.00 Driver you'll buy one for $400.00 and need to learn all over again. Really? Ya, really.

Homer Kelley didn't invent the "Right Forearm Angle of Approach", he discovered it after years of research and tens of thousands of observations of Hackers and Good Ball Strikers. All Pro's and all good Ball Strikers use the RFAOA procedure. All of them. You cannot be a good ball striker without it. So, until it's learned, you'll always be a Hacker no matter how many trips to the Trackman you make or however many lessons you pay for. You have two choices: Twist or use the RFAOA. It's because of this that some players when first learning to play begin with a 10 handicap and others are doomed to Hackersville for life.

Learning to Swing the Club “Differently” is not the solution. All clubs, from Putter to Driver SHOULD and CAN be swung using the same Pattern. One needs to understand the “Right Forearm Angle of Approach” and the simple concepts of “Low Point” and the “Geometry of the Circle”.

It seems that teachers using "Trackman" have no concern for learning these concepts as long as they get you to buy into the belief that Drivers and Wedges should be swung differently. WOW, it's such a great marketing effort: "It's not you, it's the Club". It's so refreshing.

To Start:

"Low Point" is not a Location, it's an Alignment. And the Alignment uses a basic geometry that's built into all Golf Clubs by All Manufacturers; "Neutral Hookface".

2-D-0 DIRECTIONAL FACTORS .....The direction of the ball will always be practically at right angles to the Clubface and square to the leading edge of the Clubface at separation....

So,,,when the LCOG is on the Plane Angle of the Lie Angle and the Shaft is perpendicular to a Parallel Plane and Target Line (Clubface) the Ball will travel Straight (Low Point Separation). We can talk about elastic and inelastic collisions and how Hinge action works but who has the time?

"Low Point" is an Intersection. You don't need to strike the Ball at Low-Point to hit it straight, but you do need to know the "Geometry of the Circle" to Hit it Straight from multiple Locations. Yes, Multiple Ball Locations. Anywhere within your Stance, At or Behind Low-Point, the Ball can be hit straight. TGM.




Who wants to explain the RFAOA? Then, the Geo of the Cir (fun) and how to use the Plane Angle Reference Points (more fun). You'll be hitting everything straight in a matter of minutes.

[JTillery]

So Daryl, what specifically in short version do you disagree with in this video? Do you think the worlds top players generally make one swing and change only ball position?

[Daryl]

Let me ask you a question. Do you really think that it's easier to learn to swing 1 degree upright for your Wedges and 2 degrees flatter for your 5 iron or Play your wedges 4.45398" back and your 5 iron 2.87456" back? How would you handle a downhill or side hill lie? Have you ever used Trackman while in a Bunker?

First and foremost is Angle of Approach and Angle of Attack. Re-aligning the Hoola-hoop is not Angle of Approach. Certainly there's a "correlation" and Trackman capitalizes on this. But it's very misleading.

On the Circle, Angle of Approach and Angle of Attack are ALWAYS zero. Only in a relationship between the Neutral Hookface design of the Club, on-Plane and seeking the Target Line intersection, can we have an Angle of Approach and Angle of Attack. So, all AOA and AOA need to reference Low-Point. Trackman doesn't know where Low-Point is located and Trackman doesn't use the Face geometry of the Club. First, because Low-Point isn't a Location and second because Trackman doesn't capture or measure the Clubface geometry.

SO, Trackman teachers rely on a flawed correlation which cannot possibly correct a swing flaw that has nothing to do with it anyway. You'll end up with a different swing for every club in the bag. Instead of learning one compensation, you end up learning many. Much more effort, frustration and learning than doing it right to begin with. Swinging on a steeper Plane doesn't turn a Hacker into a Golfer.

If a Hacker learns the Right Forearm Angle of Approach, then he/she will flush a 2 iron as easily as his Pitching Wedge and, he can use any Plane Angle he wants.

[JTillery]

Any teacher worth his salt would use trackman as a tool and not a replacement for instruction. Trackman measures 3d movement of clubhead through interval..........so, if it tells you that you hit x amount down and club was moving y amount right, wheres the problem? Surely we can all agree that the best alter angle of attack (and therefore path) to achieve certain shots from time to time. As in everytime they play golf. Problem with rotating to change a shot is Aofa changes with it, or at least that's been my experience. Sorry to ramble, but Im still not sure I've heard what you disagree with from the video. In a short sentence for us dumb redneck folks if you could please : )

[O.B.Left]

Hey JT

Homer had a personal preference for Grip Rotation over Plane Line Rotation I believe too. Manipulated Hands Swinging or Hitting.

Can I ask for an opinion on the geometry of the straight shot presented above?

K, so and correct me if I have this wrong, assuming a short iron say, ball back of low point, club face square to the Arc of Approach (therefor pointing right of target, no divergence in path and face). To hit the straight shot at the target you then rotate the plane line to the left accordingly.

I can see this as producing a straight ball, no problem. But wouldn't this be a higher flying , shorter shot given the added loft of the opened club face? I see it as a great way to get over a tree say. Maybe I have things wrong. If I don't , why doesn't this show up in the data ?

Me I just Rotate the Clubface back to square per (dang is it 7-3) and expect a slight draw if anything. But there isn't much of one due to the steeper plane angles associated with short irons. Less divergence , less Out , more Down . I use that logic on the other side of low point sometimes for the driver , but take the draw (ish) and the true loft , compression every time with short irons. Now in bunkers I do that just sometimes......if I want to avoid a hop to the right you get with the open plane cut shot.

That and the HOgan thing trouble me. I dunno.

Thanks Pro.