LynnBlakeGolf Forums - On Plane Motion Practice

LynnBlakeGolf Forums (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/index.php)

- The Clubhouse Lounge (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15)

- - On Plane Motion Practice (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8765)

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94419)

...But he still lost 5 holes to 3 with no strokes given! :)

I nailed lots of straight balls yesterday with driver, 3 wood and hybrids but missed some conversions of putts and chips.

And by sliding the ball in a straight line of a couple of inches back toward my right foot I will pick up some "hoopah!" But the ball is so close to me it feels almost inside the width of the turn of my shoulder! :exclaim:

ICT

Hmm, then maybe just move it back. Judge how far away by the Right Forearm Angle of Approach at Impact Fix. It will establish the correct Plane Angle for you Approach. Really cool. So, if your Forearm is on an Elbow Plane the Ball will be a little farther from your Stance Line than if your Forearm is on a Turned Shoulder Plane which located the Plane Line a bit closer to your Stance Line for a Steeper Plane.

Very nice! Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94420)

Signing out from PLANE Philadelphia!

:golfcart:

ICT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94414)

Ok, so a Reactive Force Un-cocks the Left Wrist. No big deal. Is that all CF does? Yes, I think so except for some residual forward momentum. And the more you emphasize Velocity over Mass, the more it counts. But that's another subject, and trick.

Time to toughen up. Golf is a Power Game. :)

We don't hit the Ball with CF unless you use a 10-2-D grip to Un-Cock along the Swing Plane. For Swingers, the Plane of the Left Wrist Cock not only "Turns" from Release to Both Arms Straight, but the Primary Lever is Swiveling during this same period.

How On Plane can that be unless the Wedges are aligned at 90 degrees?

So, unless you're using a "Driving Right Forearm" there will always be some off Plane tendency, somewhere along the process. :confused1

So, Whats the Clubhead (or Club) reacting to? Easy. It's reacting to the Left Arm being Blown off the Chest while using a Pivot Stroke or in the case of a non-pivot Stroke, Left Arm Motion. For Pivot Strokes, see Homer Kelleys explanation below. I underlined.

The Kinetic Link.......................................... is Very Important because if for one instantaneous moment the link is lost, lower MOI. Bold by Daryl.

Anytime you Accelerate the Club Longitudinally, you'll earn "Throw-Out" if you're going around in a circle. With a Flat Left Wrist at Release, there's not much of it, just enough to help the #3 Accumulator do the dirty work to "Wallop the BAll" . Now, if you play with a Bent Left Wrist at Release, then Cf is much more significant and the residual momentum is much greater and the #3 Accumulator will passively go along for the Ride.

Watch the Pro's. When you see Super Fast Pivots compared to s-l-o-w-e-r Pivots with the same output power, the Slower Pivot Players are Driving the Right Forearm through Release. Nothing wrong with a Fast Pivot. They're very different Pivots and ground forces.

There is SOOO much that should be discussed in this post!

As a start- THINK ABOUT "CF" as the ONLY source of power for the swingers power package. THE ONLY SOURCE OF POWER!!!!!

Maybe we should have another new thread for this discussion?? BUT it is all about "on-plane motion"

HB

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownman (Post 94416)

Im still yet to master the right forearm timing ,I have found it a few times and the ball goes so much further,armed with your last post(and a great one at that)I will attempt to attain my optimum mix of r/forearm and cen force,once happy ,i will ingrain it so its there naturally,I really needed to know if it is wise to mix right forearm and how to apply it,your words"down plane" may well be the key.....thank ALL for contributing ....cheers

It will be the key to the gate of golfing hell if you interpret "down plane" to mean that the right forearm is moving downward at impact! :crybaby:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94415)

10 years ago I would have agreed with you. 10 years from today (hopefully sooner) you'll agree with me.

Thank you for your responses.

Do you honestly believe that the hand path lies in the swing plane at impact? :confused1

If so, it will be just as implausible in 10 yrs as it is today and I can only hope newcomers to TGM don't believe what you're writing!

[quote=MizunoJoe;94428]Do you honestly believe that the hand path lies in the swing plane at impact? :confused1

QUOTE]

Pleas explain the plane my hands should be in at impact, how do I monitor this alignment and how is this hand plane taught.
Thanks

HB

Plane

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe (Post 94428)

Dozens of examples. But no one needs the yellow book to understand that the #3 PP needs to be On Plane at Impact. I have no idea what you're thinking. It could help if you explain your concept of "the Swing Plane".

Quote:

2-F PLANE OF MOTION
All the action of the Golf Club takes place on a flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane which extends well beyond the circumference of the stroke – in every direction. The full length of the Clubshaft remains unwaveringly on the face of this Inclined Plane – Waggle to Follow-through. Every other Component of the Stroke must be adjusted to comply with that requirement. See Sketch 1-L. That includes the Right Forearm. See 5-0. The player must hold the Forearm in the Feel of the same plane per 7-3, dynamically in-line. Picture the javelin thrower with the right elbow and On Plane right forearm leading the hand toward the target (Delivery Line) all during Delivery. See 6-B-1. The Right Forearm of every Hacker comes into Impact too high – pointing beyond the Delivery Line during Downstroke (2-J-3, 7-3). Study 2-G and Components 5, 6, and 7.

Regardless of where the Clubshaft and Clubhead are joined together, it always feels as if they are joined at the Sweet Spot – the longitudinal center of gravity, the line of the pull of Centrifugal Force. So there is a “Clubshaft” Plane and a “Sweet Spot,” or “Swing”, Plane. But herein, unless otherwise noted, “Plane Angle” and “Plane Line” always refer to the Center of Gravity application. Study 2-N. Expect during Impact, the Clubshaft can travel on, or to- and – from, either Plane because the Clubshaft rotation must be around the Sweet Spot – not vice versa. So Clubhead “Feel” is Clubhead Lag Pressure (6-C) and is a Golfing Imperative. (2-0). If Lag Pressure is lost the Hands tend to start the hosel (instead of the Sweet Spot) toward Impact – that mysterious “Shank.” When in doubt, “Turn” the Clubface so both the Clubshaft and Sweet Spot will be on the same plane at Start Down. Both Planes always pass through the Lag Pressure Point. Study 6-C-2-A.

Well, if both Planes pass through the "Lag Pressure Point" .....then pick a Plane. Either one, the Hands are On Plane

Quote:

3-F-5
.......The Address Waggle is a miniature reproduction of the action of the Zone #2 components through Impact j- checking out the Power Alignments. That is – the Grip and Hand action applications of the Accumulators and Pressure Points. Especially the On Plane location and direction of the Hands and Clubshaft for Impact. The “Start Down” Waggle does the same for the Top alignments and could be treated as part of the Practice Stroke. It’s a “Look, Look, Look” situation (3-B) – especially for beginners – to develop Monitoring skill. It should be repeated until the motion is being satisfactorily executed. It can, and should, be taken on through the Address Waggle area. Check for On Plane Clubshaft and Right Shoulder (2-F), for the Right Forearm tracing the Delivery Line (5-0, 10-5-0) and for “Clearing the Right Hip” (2-N-0, 10-14). Returning to Address Position may be optional. All this gives a clear picture of the Downstroke activities – instead of the usual “Downstroke Black-out.” See 7-2 and 12-3-18.

Quote:

6-B-3-0-1 THE FLYING WEDGES
The Clubhead may appear to move in an arc around and outside the Hands when related to the Left Arm – the very basic Left Arm Flying Wedge. But when related to the Right Forearm, it appears to move “On Plane” with the Right Forearm, at its normal rigid angle (Bent Right Wrist) – the Right Forearm Flying Wedge. So – except in Sections 1 and 3 (Chapter '8') the entire Left Arm, the Clubshaft and the back of the Left Hand are ALWAYS positioned against the same flat plane – the plane of the Left Wristcock motion. At the same time, the Right Forearm and the Clubshaft are, in like manner, positioned on the plane of the Right Wrist Bend AT RIGHT ANGLES TO THE LEFT ARM PLANE. That is the precision assembly and alignment of the Power Package structure and is mandatory during the entire motion. Hitting or Swinging. Study 4-D-1 regarding “Grip” and “Flat Left Wrist”. Also see 7-3. Then, ideally, the Left Wrist is always Flat and the Right Wrist is always Level (4-A-1, 4-B-1).

I don't know, what do ya think Homer Kelley would say?? Are the Hands On Plane at Impact?

When we swing a Golf club, we do so while coordinating three 2-dimensional Planes. Each of these Planes has 3 reference points which outline their individual dynamic alignments. While Swinging the Club we are Aligned to 1,2 or all 3 of these Planes. It would be most mechanically correct for the Club Shaft (LCOG) to be simultaneously Aligned to all three Planes because it allows independent control of the Club Shaft, Club Head and Club Face.

Left Arm Wedge: The Left Arm Wedge forms one Plane. The Left Shoulder, #2 PP and Clubhead are its reference points. When the Left arm moves from point A to point B, it forms a Plane and the Clubhead movement should be dynamically in-line with that Plane.

The Left Hand Grip is important in the Alignment of the Left Arm Wedge. Flat and Vertical.

Right Forearm Flying Wedge: The Right Forearm Flying Wedge forms another Plane. The Right Elbow, #3 PP and Clubhead are its reference points. When the Right Elbow and #3 PP move from point A to point B, it forms a Plane and the Clubhead movement should be dynamically in-line with that Plane.

The Right Hand Grip is important to Align the Right Forearm Flying Wedge. Level and Bent.

Together at Last: Aligning the Left Arm Wedge and Right Forearm Flying Wedge at 90 degrees will cause the Club Shaft to Align to both Planes simultaneously. This construct can then be Aligned to the Swing Plane.

Swing Plane: The Swing Plane forms another Plane. "Low Point" location, Target location and Ball location are its three reference points and their Alignment creates the Swing Plane of the Golf Swing. All three reference points can be adjusted. Normally, the Inclined Angle of this Plane is the same or is very close to the Lie Angle of the Clubshaft. The Golf Club, by design, reconciles Low Point and Target.

Homer Kelley referenced points on the Body to help identify and control this Plane. These points are described as the Shoulder and Elbow Planes and their Body reference points can be found in the yellow book. Low Point is invisible so Body references serve to substitute and have two very beneficial advantages. One, as the ball is moved On Plane while moving it back and forth on the clubhead path, the Plane Angle does not change but the Angle of Approach changes. This makes it difficult to sustain the line of compression through the Impact Interval. But the Angle of Approach can be adjusted by Tilting the Plane. The Plane is easily Tilted (Adjusted) from one of the Body reference points. The second, is that the Pivot can be adjusted to direct Thrust down this Plane.

There are no OFF PLANE motions in the Golf Swing without some form of accompanying compensation to Strike the Ball so that it responds to an Angular Force as though it were Struck by a Linear Force.

[quote=HungryBear;94439]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe (Post 94428)

Do you honestly believe that the hand path lies in the swing plane at impact? :confused1

QUOTE]

Pleas explain the plane my hands should be in at impact, how do I monitor this alignment and how is this hand plane taught.
Thanks

HB

Their movement is 3-d and not planar, and the path depends on swing plane and plane shifts. You could roughly describe the path as a bent fishhook shape, but realize that the straight line part of the paths shown in the book are ideal and not real.

You shouldn't be monitoring the hand path, but instead trace the plane line with PP#3 and have a flat, level left wrist at impact, which, when transported with the pivot, will determine the handpath.

The only way you could come close to a hand path lying on the swing plane would be a left hand grip with the handle running through the life line and the left arm perfectly in line with the shaft at address(zero #3 PA). But even then the shaft lies below the sweetspot plane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94441)

Plane

Dozens of examples. But no one needs the yellow book to understand that the #3 PP needs to be On Plane at Impact. I have no idea what you're thinking. It could help if you explain your concept of "the Swing Plane".

Well, if both Planes pass through the "Lag Pressure Point" .....then pick a Plane. Either one, the Hands are On Plane

I don't know, what do ya think Homer Kelley would say?? Are the Hands On Plane at Impact?

The path of the hands is does not lie in the Sweetspot Plane through impact. Note here at :11 thru :14 - the hands are on the TSP Sweetspot plane till Throwout(delivery) starts, where they move under the Sweetspot plane while arcing upward and inward. Look at the angle between the left arm and shaft at impact at :13. The left arm is tracing a bent line on the ground inside the plane line. You are confusing plane line tracing using the imaginary line between PP#3 and the sweetspot, with the hands moving in the Sweetspot Plane.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08rpqW2Z9Vw