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good 1 dave,i am not saying it is not in the book,just not the most efficient way,imo.sorry i am going to miss you in greenvile i am taking that extra week off to spend time with the fam.i would like to talk with you in person again and see your action live.

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Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 41534)

Assuming the spine is anchored at the top, e.g., with a Stationary Head, then it will remain vertical only if there is Zero Hip/Weight Shift. Otherwise, the lower spine moves (tilts) in the direction of the Shift.

Attempting to produce such a tilt -- in either direction -- without a Hip/Weight Shift can only produce a Sway (4th Snare / 3-F-7-D) and, if the Waist Bend or Knee Bend -- Left or Right or both -- is exaggerated, potentially a Bob (3rd Snare / 3-F-7-C). With the proper Clubhead Orbit thus disrupted, there must be a compensation, ideally one that returns the Head to its original position.

It is this 'Sway/Bob and Compensate' action that forms the basis of the Plummer-Bennett model as defined and demonstrated in Golf Digest, June 2007, The New Tour Swing. http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...tacktilt8.html

As discussed and illustrated on page 130, the head and left shoulder tilt down toward the ball in the backstroke, the "spine tilts toward the target" and the left foot is loaded. [There is no mention of just where this move puts the all-important right shoulder.] Then, in the downstroke, the player "launches off the left foot" in a "standing stretch" to produce a "springing action through the ball." The downstroke image used is one of crushing a soda can under the left foot to thrust the hips upward through impact (page 123).

So, according to the Golf Digest article, the Plummer-Bennett dictum is to "tilt to your left on the backswing and stand up through impact" (page 130). Well, having tilted to the left, I agree that it is important that the player stand up through impact. But, these extreme moves are totally unnecessary if the player simply executes a correct Pivot (7-12 and 10-12-A) with its centered Head, Free Turn with Weight Shifts and On Plane Right Shoulder (10-13-D).

Interestingly, I do not see these extremes in the unposed Aaron Baddeley Driver Stroke Sequence on the title page. Also, his perfectly-centered address position on page 120 (compare to Bennett's address in the 'stack and tilt setup'). Therefore, it is always possible that the article's demonstrations and descriptions are exaggerations intended as a 'means to an end' and not the intended end itself. For example, Bennett's obviously forward-of-middle head position at address, the top and in the start down. Also, Plummer's 'tilt and stretch' Master Moves. Then again, if that were the case, the "New Tour Swing" would not be so "radical" after all. :think:

If teachers want to teach the 'Tilt left, load-up the left foot and push off' model, that's fine by me. And if players want to use it, that's cool, too. However, readers should be advised that it does not reflect the ideal of an Uncompensated Stroke as defined in The Golfing Machine, and any representation to the contrary is inaccurate.

I agree with the above (especially the observation on the stroke sequence)....and believe this new swing model takes the player away from the 3 imperatives (the mind is leaving the hands). Just look to Homers use of the straight line delivery paths on both 12-1-0 and 12-2-0....this new model does not use that path way.

DG

Quote:

Originally Posted by john riegger (Post 41473)

just fyi,i dont think these guys are teaching the way homer wanted it taught.yes their info is in the book but it is not the most acceptable way.if you dont believe me then why do they not teach putting the right forearm on plane at address?too many extra moves in their model to be a truly great ball striker.a hand controlled pivot is far superior.i have tried it all in 25 years and nobody i mean nobody understands mr.kellys teachings better than lynn blake,rob noel,ted fort,jeff hull and a selective few.sorry to step on anyones toes but the truth will come to the forefront sooner than later.

John,

I think what they are teaching is a brain controlled pivot, not a hand controlled pivot. You may be right, however they are not teaching Homer's "Model" in chapter 12. The standard right knee action in the Second Edition is in, the right anchor is out, the flat shoulder turn is out, and the rotated shoulder plane is in. The Dual Horizontal Hinge in the Second Edition and the Horizontal Hinge in subsequent editions are out. The Angled Hinge is in, as it holds the club shaft on the plane and controls the rate of closure. After all we are trying to turn shoulders in a circle per 2-G right?

So which of Homer's Model's are you referring to? The Second Edition? Third Edition? Sixth Edition? They seem to change every edition.

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Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 41534)

Look, Look, Look, Its there you just have to Look.

Grant Waite At Richmond

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 41188)

I am at the Nationwide's Henrico County Open in Richmond, Virginia, and worked about an hour and a half today with Grant. Some major light bulbs went off, and he was clearly excited about tying a lot of loose ends together. This improved understanding led to a distinctly superior execution and compression. As he told John Riegger, who came up toward the end of our session, "No one has ever explained these things I am trying to do so simply." :grin:

I took some before and after photos, but don't have my 'download' equipment with me. I'll post them when I get back. :)

Grant Waite and I worked again after the third round of the AT&T Classic in Atlanta. Specifically, the alignment in question was the Hands to the Right Shoulder (and the Turned Shoulder Plane) at the Top. His were a bit low -- he knew it -- and we were immediately on the same page. Also, his Left Hand was slightly Rolled (to the left of Vertical) in his Grip. Finally, in part because of the above misalignments, his On Plane Right Forearm Tracing during Start Up was not as he wanted it to be.

We saw each other again at the Nationwide's Melwood Prince George's County Open in Maryland this week. In Atlanta, we had talked of getting together then, but given my prior commitments at the tournament site, our schedules unfortunately didn't jive. So, except for a few minutes during his pre-round Tuesday warm-up, we saw each other only coming and going from the practice tee and golf course. We did manage to spend 15 minutes of very productive time in the locker room after Thursday's round. There we discussed his 'work in progress' and the possibility of a Swamp visit in the next week.

Grant is known for his search for Golfing Truth. I am not the first golf instructor to experience his pick axe. Nor will I be the last. But for now...

We have met in the arena.

Our mutual goal is the best Golf Stroke he is capable of producing at this time.

We have an understanding.

And that is enough.

:)

--------------------------------------------------

The Photos (from Tuesday of the Henrico County Open in Richmond, Virginia, April 27, 2007):

#1 Before: Right Forearm at Address. Note that it points well inside the Plane Line.

#2 After: Right Forearm preliminary positioning at Address -- down the line view.

#3 After: Right Forearm positioning at Adjusted Address -- front view. Note the background pole marking Pivot Center (Head) aligned "precisely between the feet." [This is a natural landmark, not a super-imposed graphic.] The Clubshaft is Right Angled to the Line.

#4 After: Back to Adusted Adress. Note the Standard Address alignments (10-9-A) with Left Wrist Bent and Right Wrist Flat (or nearly so). Again note Centered Head.

#5 Addressing Positioning, confirming Target/Plane Line. Note Pivot Center (Head) background mark. Per 1-L #2, "The Stationary Post (Player's Head) can turn (Pivot) but it does not Sway or Bob."

#6 Fully-Assembled and Programmed Adjusted Address. Again, note Pivot Center (Head) background mark. Compare to the Centered 'white-marker' in 9-1-3 (Address) and 9-2-1 #1 (Preliminary Address).

#7 At the Finish. The Head has moved freely to align itself with the Left Leg and Weight Shift at the Finish. This alignment reduces the strain on the back (after the Follow-Through / Both Arms Straight position) and is always the player's option.

Lynn, what did Andy and Mike have to say to you about the GD article. You mentioned a possible post on that.

Here is som video of Aaron Baddeley demonstrating "Stack&Tilt".
http://www.zshare.net/video/2050005e94858d/

http://www.zshare.net/video/20500126beb6bb/

Does it look loke those weird pics in the article? Don't think so... But when I try this I FEEL like Plummer but look more like Badds

GD really screwed up- or at least the art director. The largest pictures in the article were to show 'feel.' How obsurd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6bmike (Post 42034)

GD really screwed up- or at least the art director. The largest pictures in the article were to show 'feel.' How obsurd.

Agree, absolutely absurd, ruined the article in my opinion.