LynnBlakeGolf Forums - On Plane Motion Practice

LynnBlakeGolf Forums (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/index.php)

- The Clubhouse Lounge (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15)

- - On Plane Motion Practice (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8765)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe (Post 94392)

It's no wonder many TGMers think the hands are moving downward at impact what with all the emphasis on DOWN DOWN DOWN - all the way to China! But the hand path bottoms out well before impact with the club head still lagging behind

You've got the club head correct - REALLY.

However, no "capisce" on the hands. Go to pg 193, fig 10-19-A and look at the hand path for Hitting and Drive Loading - it's curving upward. It's the same for Swinging and any loading or release type. If the hands are moving downward at impact, the club head will have beaten the hands to the ball from the line of sight perspective, and you will have complete lag loss and compression-less impact.

You're trying to not understand. I don't know why unless you have a chip on your shoulder? TGM'ers are nice people.

I Said:

Quote:

The Hands will reach their Closest point to the ground when they're below the Left Shoulder (related to the Ground) but Geometrically its Located when the Right Arm is Fully Straight (Full Extension). So, the Hands Travel Down-Plane until Full Extension regardless of their distance from the Ground. The Hands travel Down-Plane while the Right Elbow is Straightening and Up-Plane while the Left Arm is Folding. Don't confuse "Down-Plane" with the Ground you're standing on, that's "Golf Channel" stuff and stuff you find in golf books for public consumption and by Golf instructors trying to make a living (not all). The Clubhead, Ball and Hands don't know about the Ground and they don't care. They are ruled by Orbit and Low-Point.

Maybe you don't understand the difference between traveling "Down plane" and traveling "Toward the Ground". It will help you understand if you stop thinking that moving toward the ground is "Down plane" and moving away from the ground is "Up Plane".

Quote:

3-F-7-E ..... The correct concept of an “On Plane” procedure is driving the Club – not “a little downward and a little outward” – but “Down Plane”. Down Plane to full extension per 2-C-0 and 2-L#2. Also study 2-F, 2-N and 2-P.

I'll try to help:

The Clubhead travels an Orbit and at some point on the Orbit the Leading Edge of the Clubface is Square to the Target Line, the Shaft at its correct Lie Angle and within a Plane perpendicular to the Target Line. This is called Low-Point Geometry and it is an Alignment, and not a specific Location until you designate one.

Imagine the Circle (Orbit) on a Horizontal Plane (see illustration below). Imagine Swinging on a Horizontal Plane and you strike the ball when the Clubshaft is at Right Angles to the Target Line. The Clubhead keeps traveling Down Plane. When does Down Plane stop and Up Plane begin?

Traveling Forward is Down Plane. "Capisce" :)

Quote:

2-C-0 LINEAR FORCE ... Your main lines of defense are the Flat Left Wrist, Hinge Action and a Three Dimensional Downstroke – that is DOWNward (Attack Angle) AND OUTward (Plane Angle) AND FORward (Approach Angle) per 2-C-1#2A/B. Study 2-H, 2-N and 7-3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94376)

Because of your shorter front leg you should be playing below Par. But, from your post I can tell that you're twisting your legs and using that as your Backstroke Hip Turn :nono: (that's not in the Book). So, your knees are out of Alignment and Twisted all about and your only hope to shift your weight has been to use a stack and tilt type lateral move toward the Target to get your weight to move to drive (actually, it would Pull) your right shoulder. Why go through so much work? So much struggle?

Why not allow your Hips to turn and your weight to shift by bending your knees rather than Twisting them? That way, you can "LOAD" your Right Foot during the backstroke and turn your hips to initiate the Downswing using your right leg as a backstop (not launching pad) and your weight will shift at the appropriate time (about a millisecond before impact). See Ben Hogans book, "Five ways or something". Or, March in Place with your feet apart, knees bent and bend from the Hips. Then, your Hips will Turn, weight will shift, but your knees won't Twist. TGM.

It's unfair that you have a shorter left leg because it means that gravity will assist your weight shift and you'll be more powerful going through the Ball. You should give strokes to your competitors. When Obamacare finds out that it helps your game, they'll charge you more.

I'd feel bad if your Right leg was shorter.

Daryl's Helpful Tip: Load your Right Foot before you Load the #3 PP.

Upon getting home from school, I busted out the impact bag and a couple clubs. I RFT'd and really sat on my right knee letting it bend quite a bit. I contrasted the Both Arms Straight (BAS) positions using a dowel first though. When separating my left knee the hands really lay back and the BAS position is only slightly forward of the left hip and the hips were only slightly open at impact. In contrast, after loading the right knee and planting the left heel, the BAS position is much further forward with a full Horizontal Hinge, the hips are much more open, and there is and a much more vigorous Forward Swivel. :clap:

Will test this out with the warmer weather this weekend and report back. :golfing_banana:

ICT

D you forgot 1-L whatever. Its the Thrust not the hands or their path that goes down and out to Both Arms Straight. Even though the clubhead is coming In and Up post low point. This is a major thing to my mind.

The Hands also move in accordance to their centre. If the left shoulder as the centre of the left arms travel is raising so does the left hand regardless of where it is vis a vis low point.

If a school clock was positioned higher on a wall . The low point for the minute hand would still be 6 o'clock but the hight off the ground of the furthest extension of the minute hand would be higher... ah ...all analogies suck.

What the heck is the bucket drill? Where is Bucket anyways.

point of origin of centripetal force?
Kinetic link-point?:BangHead:

I don't want to be argumentative. Nice if we're able to have a stress free discussion. This forum pertains to "On Plane Motion Practice" so knowing the Planes, how to coordinate them and what the meaning of Down-ward, Down and Down-Plane will be useful.

But. Chapter 2 has good info on this subject.

The Circle.

When you have an Orbit (Circle) Down-Out-Forward is one direction and In-Up-Back is the other direction. But, the circle didn't determine the direction, we do, by reference. We say, we're going this way or that way.

If the Clubhead while Orbiting could talk, it would say "hey man, I'm going around in a circle".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94393)

You're trying to not understand. I don't know why unless you have a chip on your shoulder? TGM'ers are nice people.

I Said:

Maybe you don't understand the difference between traveling "Down plane" and traveling "Toward the Ground". It will help you understand if you stop thinking that moving toward the ground is "Down plane" and moving away from the ground is "Up Plane".

I'll try to help:

The Clubhead travels an Orbit and at some point on the Orbit the Leading Edge of the Clubface is Square to the Target Line, the Shaft at its correct Lie Angle and within a Plane perpendicular to the Target Line. This is called Low-Point Geometry and it is an Alignment, and not a specific Location until you designate one.

Imagine the Circle (Orbit) on a Horizontal Plane (see illustration below). Imagine Swinging on a Horizontal Plane and you strike the ball when the Clubshaft is at Right Angles to the Target Line. The Clubhead keeps traveling Down Plane. When does Down Plane stop and Up Plane begin?

Traveling Forward is Down Plane. "Capisce" :)

Honestly, you can't be serious - can you? You said that the hands and club head are moving down plane at impact, which means according to your latest rationalization that even if the club head is moving upwards with respect to the ground, it is still traveling "down" plane. It would not be, it would be "on" plane and moving upward. The clubhead moves backward, upward, and inward on the BS, where upward means with respect to the ground. These are Homer's words(2-F, last paragraph). On the DS, the clubhead moves forward, downward, and outward to low point and then forward, upward and inward, where downward and upward are in reference to the ground. You are confusing Down Plane with On Plane.

Now for the hands - the hands move "off" plane well before impact because Throwout commences before impact, and they follow the hand path - are we to assume by your reasoning that as they arc upward they are still going "down" the hand path even though they are moving upward from the ground?

Forward is Down Plane only only until low point, that's what you need to "capische".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe (Post 94399)

Now for the hands - the hands move "off" plane well before impact because Throwout commences before impact, and they follow the hand path - .......

MJ, where did you read, or what makes you think that the Hands move Off-Plane? That theory goes against any current Swing Theory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizunoJoe (Post 94399)

Forward is Down Plane only only until low point, that's what you need to "capische".

After Low-Point, aren't the Club and Hands and Pivot moving Forward (Down Plane)? Although you think that "Forward" is not the same as "Down Plane" I'm sure you must agree that the Hands and Club are moving "Forward" after Impact. I don't know anyone that would claim the Hands and Club stop moving Forward after Impact.

Down the Road (Forward)
Down the Path (Forward)
Down the Aisle (Forward)

PLANE as the nose on my face!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 94393)

At the range with Start-up Swivel loading the heck out of my right foot on the inside and sitting on my right knee though mistakenly planting the left heel to come down, still holding the Bent Right Wrist at the shoulder, gripping the wheel rim allowed me to get to Both Arms straight with no worries. I probably got away with it because both feet were closer together. Snapped lots of Horizontal Hinges with lots of high fades and high draws as I moved leg positions and Low Point. Lots of stability the right leg. Really letting the Forward Swivel go following up the Plane, 50 degrees outside and the driver bounces at 230 yards.

Hands back-make right hip turn left tomorrow! Solid Structure keeping Plane on the "pitched roof "with Right Forearm Angle of Approach feeling to brush against my right thigh very inside and powerful! :dance:

ICT

Finding the Plane a lot closer and further in front of me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 94404)

A balmy 43 degrees and melting snow greeted us at 8am this morning but what was unexpected was how close the Base line of the Plane was to me and how far in front of me the ball can be struck squarely slightly before Both Arms Straight. The distance with driver was almost June-like which was unbelievable! :dance:

Irons were two -three clubs shorter but the ball position was still incredibly close! A simple left turn with the right hip after RFT sent the ball straight, high and far. So an 84 felt pretty good for not playing for three weeks with a inconsistent putting day.

I have to remember to let the Forward Swivel work and not chicken-wing. :nono:
ICT

Sounds promising. Right Hip Turns Left to start the Down Stroke. Left heel becomes planted. That's a good one.

43 degrees. Not so good. But daring.

Did you win?