Longitudinal Center of Gravity
 

Let's Discuss 2-F

PGA Tour Veteran...Neal Lancaster....on a visit to the Creek!!!




Regardless of where the Clubshaft and the Clubhead are joined together, it always feels as if they are joined at the Sweetspot - the longitudinal center of gravity, the line of pull of Centrifugal Force. So there is a "Clubshaft" Plane and a "Sweetspot", or "Swing', Plane. But herein, unless otherwise noted,"Plane Angle" and "Plane Line" always refer to the Center of Gravity application. Study 2-N. except during impact, the Clubshaft can travel on, or to- and from, either Plane because Clubshaft rotation must be around the Sweetspot - not vice versa. So Clubhead "Feel" is Clubhead lag Pressure(6-C) and is a Golfing Imperative. (2-0). If Lag pressure is lost the Hands tend to start the hosel(intead of the sweetspot) toward Impact - that mysterious "Shank". When in doubt, "Turn" the Clubface so both the Clubshaft and the Sweetspot will be on the same Plane at Start Down. Both Planes always pass though the Lag Pressure Point. Study 6-C-2-A.

:D

Which is why I like to look at the plane that the pressure points in the HANDS travel on during the motion.

Monitor the hands (chapter 5)

Close Up
 

Maybe a picture could be posted of the Handle with the LCG line on it(close up). With the Strong Single Action Grip the pressure points in the HANDS touch this line. Last three finger tips of left(#2), first joint of right index finger(#3), left thumb aft, with lifeline of right hand covering thumb(#1).

Annikan... I bet the folks would like to see the face on of Mr. Lancaster! You can SEE some lag here! Maybe should be on another topic.

This thread is very important....DO NOT let this drift into oblivion like the rest!!!

Ok,....

I am here. But...should we lead the discussion towards the original point (LCG vs swivel)?

Patrick

Okay, I’m reviewing 2-F and reading 2-N.

It has taken all morning to write this.

Sweetspot. The Shaft or hosel rotates. No problem I can see it in slow motion with a rod forming a wedge from SS to grip. What I have a problem ‘seeing’ this morning is the ‘When in doubt’- if both the shaft and sweetspot are on the same plane (swingplane or sweetspot plane??) at the start down and stays on the same plane when the clubshaft is parallel to the Base Line (store position)- 2-F third paragraph- it seems all to easy to swivel the SS off the plane line and keep the shaft on line. I think 2-N threw me off. What a hacker!:)

Philly

this is just a more in depth look at the LCG ....

Let's all look closer at the photo posted with Neal Lancaster

Notice the seperate LCG and clubshaft planes

The LCG is holding or tracing the plane line on the ground ....

notice the shaft change it's relationship to the LCG which is holding itself to the plane line...


all of a sudden you no longer see the LCG in the last frame because the "the Clubshaft can travel on, or to- and from, either Plane because Clubshaft rotation must be around the Sweetspot - not vice versa.In this case, shaft has traveled "on, and to ,the plane of the LCG" The LCG is now hidden by the shaft!

Identify Neal Lancaster's 10-18... 10-18-A or 10-18-C-1???

Now I suggest that this relationship is different based upon the ineraction of three seperate but intertwined areas.
1) Hinge Action
2) Wrist Action
3) Lag Loading

I would agree that Both Hitters and Swingers would use the LCG in a similar but very different way(it is what is on -plane the sameness, but dragged or driven is the difference)However, Wrist Action and Loading is what changes the shaft location to the LCG...I also believe hinge action has a relationship as well....Shaft rotation around the LCG is opposite for Vertical Hinging than Horizontal Hinging...

I am NOT a self-proclaimed expert on this subject...BUT I DO NOT believe hitters and swingers use this relationship the same way....

As a matter of fact ...I think it is a huge difference...A primary difference...

BUT I could be wrong...so correct me if I am!!!

6b...stay on the scent ...remember you are "hound" ....keep that nose to the ground...!!!!

Stay with us..A return phone call Patrick...is being requested...Thanks

Ballstriker . . . How about this dude . . .

Since we are told to monitor our hands. AND Left Hand is Clubface. AND the LCG/Sweet Spot lies on the Clubface. AND it is the Clubshaft that rotates around the Sweet Spot. Would it not follow that any Hand Action (Turning/Rolling/Hinging) would result in a corresponding movement of the Clubshaft around the Sweet Spot?

So if the answer to this question is YES . . . Then could there also be a link to Hand Action, the Rotation of the Shaft about the Sweet Spot AND possibly the employment of 10-5-E Closed/Steeper Plane Line for the Hitter as well? Hmm . . .

It is quite obvious to me at least that in the 5th Frame of Mr. Lancaster's stroke that the LGC and the Clubshaft lie in the same plane. It also seems that by observation of Mr. Lancaster's Left Wrist that he would be employing the Standard Wrist Action (with Start Up Swivel) of the Swinger. So this seems like evidence to support your well thought out case . . . at least to a dumbarse redneck bulldawg chickin bisquit eatin' dingleberry from Tatertown Naf Cackalacka anyhow.

Bucket....

Would you agree that in Frame #8 the LCG is hidden behind the shaft which has rotated onto the same plane of the LCG.....How did this mysterious phenomena take place....I think you might be onto something....perhaps at the very least a "clue"...

We'll be in touch


Central Naf Cakalackey

Frame #5 looks like Mac's position. I remember this from your photo's compared with VJ......

thanks annikan.........:D

What is happening between frame #5 and #6?

Samenesses...but Differences!!!
 

Yes Neal Lancaster is on-plane ....but he's on a different plane angle....Mac O'Grady is on the Hands Only Plane where Neal is on the Elbow Plane and then will shift up to the Turned Shoulder Plane...


Neal when he get's hitting it to bad...tends to shift OUT to the Squared Shoulder Plane which can be too steep of an approach for a Driver....During this lesson we were working on getting it on-plane earlier and then let have a single shift up to the Turned Shoulder Plane ...

A Start Up Swivel...Left Hand Palm facing the plane angle with 10-18-A....then Where did it go? The LCG ....in frame #8 is hidden behind the shaft which has rotated on, to the same plane as the LCG...:cool:

On Plane
 

Skywalker~

What is the effect on the analysis if Clubshaft/sweetspot and lag pressure point are on a plane that does not intersect the plane line? In 6,7 and 8 they appear to be on a plane that extends beyond the plane line.

DRW

I would agree that Frame #8 he's off the baseline...however...in the other frames he's picking up the plane line on the floor that is being traced from the target back to ....You have to remember one key piece to this puzzle...the model is a PGA Tour Veteran who is not sure what the string is doing on that club...much less knows what a plane line is.....So we all here at TGM Central are way ahead of the learning curve...than persay a PGA TOUR Player who is attempting to learn tracing...

<<all of a sudden you no longer see the LCG in the last frame>>

I was just asking if his position had an effect on this conclusion because 2-F has emphasis beyond what was originally referenced. Certainly, it was not my intent to be critical of a tour player. TGM Basic Plane Angles are importantly different from what Hogan and prominent instruction presents.

I appreciate the introduction of this subject.

DRW

Sweet Spot Thru
 

We have spent a great deal of time dealing with where the LGC is at the Top in relation to the Left Arm Flying Wedge. But where does the LCG line up at Impact and Follow through?

It better be On plane...via tracing the #3PP

Annikan is on a roll
 

Annikan,

Your LCG and tether discussions have transformed my game and understanding of TGM--to quote Jim Krammer "Mega Mad Bullyas to you my friend"--thanks.

I have keyed in on how the thumb and thumb pads incorrectly tug against the LCG when one grips the club thinking only on the club-shaft plane. Only when one really gets a sense of the Longitudinal Center of Gravity can one hold the club in proper balance. Its amazing how quickly the thumbs can choke this balance off, and create some ugly results.

Not sure if this is on subject but...

When swinging one is to drag load the club by pulling the shaft towards the plane line first (per sequenced release) to release point at which time the roll starts towards impact. Wouldn't this intial dragging down the plane be starting the hosel towards the ball instead of the sweetspot?

Would it be correct to say that the hitter will be rotating the shaft around the sweet spot right from the start down while the swinger waits until release point?

There is a serious fog moving in here and I fear a truck is in the headlights so...

Help! Please!

rrabick

Rotating lag pressure
 

The swinger has a rotating #3 pressure point, as he loads the pressure on top of the shaft at end. In a snap release the pressure point won't rotate until very late. The hitter loads the #3 pressure point on the back of the shaft at top, where the pressure will stay.
You have dodged the truck!

I evidently have missed the "message" of this thread. What is it that I should be able to take out of this thread? Has it drifted into oblivion or am I just cluless (wouldn't be the first time)?

rrabick

Go back...Go back....look at the pic...read the post......Go Back..Go Back!!!! "Swing the String"!!!

If Lag Pressure is "Feel" what are the Mechanics involved?

DRW

Regardless of where the Clubshaft and the Clubhead are joined together, it always feels as if they are joined at the Sweetspot - the longitudinal center of gravity, the line of pull of Centrifugal Force. So there is a "Clubshaft" Plane and a "Sweetspot", or "Swing', Plane. But herein, unless otherwise noted,"Plane Angle" and "Plane Line" always refer to the Center of Gravity application. Study 2-N. except during impact, the Clubshaft can travel on, or to- and from, either Plane because Clubshaft rotation must be around the Sweetspot - not vice versa. So Clubhead "Feel" is Clubhead lag Pressure(6-C) and is a Golfing Imperative. (2-0). If Lag pressure is lost the Hands tend to start the hosel(intead of the sweetspot) toward Impact - that mysterious "Shank". When in doubt, "Turn" the Clubface so both the Clubshaft and the Sweetspot will be on the same Plane at Start Down. Both Planes always pass though the Lag Pressure Point. Study 6-C-2-A.