Single Wrist Action
 

It seems that I've found my Pot-of-Gold. 10-6-B, 10-13-A, and 10-18-F. Simple, repeatable, good Loading, and it contributes to an excellent Longitudinal Pull feel. Better than Standard Wrist Action.

The Translator
 

What Daryl is saying is...

Use the Turned (Right) Shoulder Plane and eliminate any Start Up Swivel in the Backstroke.

From there, delay the Release by keeping the Left Hand Palm Down (to the Plane) -- and the Right Hand Palm up -- through the Release Point and then Swivel into Impact.

Am I right, Daryl?

Quite Right. And 10-18-C #1 has fewer moving parts than a Start Up Swivel. Besides, the Downstroke Pre-Hinge Swivel on a Turned Shoulder Plane has more continuity while tracing a Straight Plane line. Especially compared to that of returning to an Elbow Plane from a Double Shift. These mechanics contribute to the Longitudinal Pull feeling that I've been missing rather than the 'yank Ye-O club around' feeling I've become accustomed to.

This has the makings of a great thread.

I say the 10-18-C-1 backstroke is indistinguishable from 10-18-A. The amount of true wrist rotation which is suppose to distinguish between the two is the same. The only difference is that 10-18-C-1 happens more gradually and 10-18-A more suddenly in the beginning of the stroke.

One piece of advice for those trying to apply this info to their own swing. Use the wrist action you're most comfortable with to keep the Clubshaft On Plane. I see so many people who are doing well, and then they learn about Standard Wrist Action (Start Up Swivel) and they start going under plane and all sorts of compensations start creeping in.

I would have to say that right now I use 10-6-A Elbow Basic not by choice but rather that's what plane best describes what my swing looks like.

Question: the subjects address position in the picture 10-6-B#1 shows the right wrist really uncocked. Is this required by the plane?

CW

True - it can be very easy to turn too much and end up off/under plane. That said, there is a 'big' difference between the two (startup swivel vs none).

I tend to 'feel' this via my left shoulder and the clear feel of getting 'under' the shaft, while really feeling the 'line of the left arm/club/wristcock going 'UP' the plane.

The feel for that 'line' is the key benefit of the medicus 2000 IMO. The trick is getting the 'up plane' while not letting the clubhead get behind your hands in the startup.

The swinger's feel for the left arm flying wedge (loading the left wrist - 10-18-A), the hitter's feel for the right arm flying wedge (loading the right elbow - 10-18-C)

What is this?
 

Question: the subjects address position in the picture 10-6-B#1 shows the right wrist really uncocked. Is this required by the plane?


I gotta know

The Right Wrist Alignment
 

Regardless of Plane Angle, the Right Wrist is ideally held Level throughout the Stroke. The fact that the Wrist may appear Uncocked in 10-6-B #1 does not alter this Basic. It merely points to the fact that any photo in the book should be used as a check ONLY for the point under discussion and not those appearing incidentally (2-R).

And 10-6-B #1 refers only to the Turned Shoulder Plane Angle, not the Perpendicular alignment of the Right Wrist.

Study the Perpendicular Wrist Positions in 4-B-0/1/2/3. Especially study Photo 4-B-1. Level may be more "Uncocked" than you think!

Would it be fair to say that there is a greater range of motion from 'level' to 'fully cocked' than there is from 'level' to 'fully uncocked'? i.e. level is not 'halfway' between cocked and uncocked. Would apply to both right and left wrists.

Bruce

Thanks for clarifying. You're correct about 4-B-1, it looks un-cocked but I understand the relationship to level wrt the forefinger.

CW

One thing I could never quite get my head around was the concept of having a level left wrist at fix. If it is our goal to have impact as a pure hinge action - the further back of low point we go at fix surely the more wristcock there will be as the left arm and shoulder is above plane during the start impact interval until the left shoulder gets also to the inclined plane at followthrough when the power package is fully inline...

Also on a sidenote here with the rotated shoulder turn vs the onplane shoulder turn - The onplane shoulder turn is impossible accept initially in the downstroke as the axis tilts via hip slide - which spins the secondary lever assembly and right arm onplane like a flywheel.

Think about it - if the power package is fully inline at followthrough the left arm is onplane (or marginally parallel) by going to and in a straight line with the shaft (or more specifically longitudinal center of gravity) - if the left arm is onplane - the right shoulder/arm is onplane and lets say for simplicity sake the base of the neck is the center.... how can there be a position at the top to create this without moving the stationary point....

Let me do a demonstration to point this out - put a pen on a table (a plane) and press it in the middle to create a pivot point - now both ends of the pen represent a shoulder - now turn the pen notice that it does not leave the table - now think of a reverse motion from follow through back to the top of the backstroke - think about how the left shoulder could never actually leave the plane if the right never leaves the plane. This obviously doesn't happen in golfers strokes....

Unlike the letter "T" (or your pen example) the shoulders, horizontal bar, do not move in unison around the spine, vertical bar.

The shoulders work independant of each other and are not mutually synchronous.

Im not talking about the spine here just the geometry of the shoulder turn.... the left arm at followthrough is uncocked and inline, is it not - its then is in a straight line onplane including the left shoulder. The right shoulder cannot also be onplane also at this point ..... both shoulders cannot be onplane at followthrough because you cannot have a top of the backstroke to create this.

The left shoulder may be stretched out with extensor action but it does very little to change my example and correctness.

If two points (shoulders) are drawn on a plane like my example joining a line between these two points and drawing an equidistant point (base of neck). Now since the base of the neck stays stationary and the right shoulder never leaves the plane - tell me how the left shoulder can leave that plane - give you a hint - it can't....

Nice Thread Here..."Tongzilla..The Great"....has some wonderful points.....very difficult to distinguish...10-18-A...10-18-C #1...But one is Turning ...the other is Turned..the degree as Leo so wonderfully stated..to hold to the selected Plane Angle!!

What is meant by Turned (Right) Shoulder Plane?

Inclined Plane
 

//////////////////////////

They must be talking about the Turned Shoulder Basic Plane Angle. Make a Flat Backstroke Shoulder Turn, then draw your line from the ball up to the right shoulder. You can also usually get this one by drawing a line from the ball up under the right arm pit at Address.

According to the book... a Rotated Backstroke Shoulder Turn( which is a Steeper Shoulder Turn)... can also locate a Turned Shoulder Plane Angle.

How to tell if your wrist is level.
 

I got this from a pro named Bob Mann years ago (Automatic Golf).

Between the wrist bone and the base of the thumb there is a dimple.
If you uncock the wrist until that dimple just disappears, it's level.

What dimple???????????

Dimple?
 

The medical term for the dimple is snuffbox.
I'm not a doctor but am a practicing hypochodriac!

Anatomical Snuffbox
 

The Snuffbox
 

Great link, Bob. Thanks!

With all the Latin terms available, it's hard to believe that the 'docs' still call it the 'snuffbox'. I first heard the term in 1969 when taking lessons from Melvin Hemphill at Forest Oaks CC in Columbia, South Carolina. Melvin was a 'wee left-hander' who had been at the club forever and was known as one of the best teachers in the state.

One of his early pupils was Gardner Dickinson, who was stationed at nearby Ft. Jackson during his Army days. Gardner had already started his pro tour career and study under Ben Hogan but had been drafted.

:(

One of the things Gardner told Melvin that Ben told him -- :eyes: -- was to keep that 'snuffbox' on the right side of the shaft. No great player, said he, ever had it positioned on top or to the left.

Good advice then.

Good advice now.

:)

Single Wrist Action
 

Does not the loft of the club increase when one tries to hold the backside of the left hand against the sky and the palm of the right hand against the ground, far into the downswing to delay the release?

Uhmmm I think the left wrist should stay flat, on the same plane. From a place viewed (the front side) the clubface, the left wrist and the side of the arm make, are all in, a straight line. As long as experiments don`t change this... keep going !

That's interesting because I "believe" M. Jacobs likes it (snuffbox) on the top. Didn't he work with Ben as well? Sorry if I'm mistaken.