Right Forearm/Right Hand/Right Elbow in Swinging
 

What role or function does the Right Arm play in Swinging?

We are loading the Left Wrist (No. 2) . . . but the Right Arm stays Passive no? What kind of Right Arm thoughts should the Swinger have?

Are we just using the Law of the Triangle and just pulling our PASSIVE Triangle DOWNPLANE?

sling
 

It slings. The hands via the Flying wedges hold the club, the right shoulder cranks and throws out the arms and club. CF has no muscle power. The right shoulder power package does- as it cranks - but not the right arm.

Swingers sling.

Hitters punch.

Right Arm
 

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That sounds pretty good.

For Swinging... the right arm is passive. There is some right triceps activity, for Extensor a Action, and one could also trace with the right forearm. The ELBOW, however, on the downswing is not ACTIVE, as in Hitting. The arm does straighten out due to the forces.

So CF blasts the Left Arm off the chest via the Right Shoulder and also uncocks the Right Elbow and thus the Left Wrist?

So basically the Right Arm just is there to support and aim the Flail?

This analysis is limited
 

The views of the previous entires in this thread are limited. Accelerating the Club longitudinally, with either Arm, is Swinging.

There are AI's that teach both left arm swinging and right arm swinging. Uncocking the right elbow from the top offers the golfer full power (CF still uncocks the left wrist)...see 10-3-K and 10-3-D. Cheers to the Magic of the Right Forearm...see the Tomasello Letter series videos, it's all there. For a book on the TGM right arm swinging approach, see Mark Evershed's "The Golf Solution", copies are available in a left hand or a right hand version. See Mark's site at www.markevershedgolf.com

DG

I live a very limited life. .. :(

Cool. But I am asking in reference to the Left Arm Swing . . . I wouldn't want this thread to turn into another debate on Right Arm Swinging and TT . . . No offense but y'all have had that one numerous times.

Hmmmmm....you didn't say anything about it being a left arm swing analysis....everything you stated in the title had to do with the right arm!!!

6B...thanks for being honest. It might help to unlock your limited life. :happy3: I think you might need to start posting more regularly...

DG

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For Standard Swinging... that sounds pretty good(4-2-3 Release). There is Right Arm Swinging, where the Right Arm is Active.

The right forearm in the swingers procedure is to provide the non-accelerating thrust of extensor action towards the plane line.

This non-accelerating thrust does not in itself move the left arm, however as the power package is transported via shoulder motions, it does displace the right forearm and its position relative to the power package. It is in this sence the right arm can be considered passive.

It assists (passive) or participates (active) in the pulling action against the club lag.

Create the angle between the shaft and left arm and the club "lag" (the heaviness feel). The right arm can be passive or active, as long as the job gets done. I think both arms as an "one-structure created by both arms" v.s. a "two-arm" structure being assigned different tasks.

Or pulling our "rigid" Triangle DOWNPLANE?

Y'all ain't gotta go home . . .
 

But you gotta get the heck outta here!

Yeah . . . but I was the dude that asked the question in the first place . . . and to clarify I was asking what the Right Arm does in Left Arm Swinging.

So now my thread will get jacked because y'all want to debate Right Arm Swinging which is cool . . . But I was the cat that started the tread and I want to know about the Left Arm Stroke.

If you guys want to have a Texas Dawg Collar Match on TT and RAS start another thread.

It's MY party and I'll cry if I want to. Like Mama said, "If y'all want to rough-house take it outside! Or git me a switch!"

Mental Note
 

Delaware Dave,
My hero! You've discovered what sends Bucket into a tizzy- Thread Jacking- :) - Finally after years of researching how to put this guy in a mental institution- you've inadvertantly discovered what I've been looking for- forever in your debt!:)

Now, back to Left arm swing here and Right arm swinging somewhere close by.

Hey Mike,

If the only problem we have is deciding whether to use left arm swinging or right arm swinging, we're pretty lucky....maybe even spoiled...we have experts on both subjects on the little green mans site...

If left arm swinging is the heart of this thread....by all means....PLAY BALL.

DG

Fuel To the Fire
 

Not to worry, Dave. I've got Homer himself on tape saying (in reference to the Right Arm Swing)...

"It's a beautiful procedure."

:shock:

Let the games begin.

Uh...

Re-commence.

Or...

Hmmm...

Go somewhere else and do something else.

Whatever!

:)

P.S. I LOVE this place!

Crackhead.

Thanks Yoda,

Ya gotta love it...I just wish I had the time to explore all of the great procedures in TGM...unfortunately we all have only so much time…

DG

I never heard Ben call a Swing right handed or left handed. Not saying he didn't. Ben always says that the right are is ALWAYS driving. But unlike a right arm swinger where the right elbow becomes the center of the swing- I'd bet dollars to donuts that the left shoulder is still the center of that "right arm swinger" that Ben was talking about. Did Ben refer to the change of center in his swing?

The Perfect Head
 

But for you Bucket- I want it all in one piece- No cracks- just one nice round globe- sitting in my 3rd fridge out in the garage! 2nd Shelf- back corner..... never mind started to daydream-
Honey, where are my keys- I need to drive to North Carolina!

P.S. Did I miss EC's response to my foursome challenge- or is he trembling behind your couch- EC where are you!

6bmike, Thank you for the correction. He did not say that the right arm became the center of the swing. He did say that the right arm is ALWAYS driving (something I haven't done). My jumbled memory from five hours on Saturday. It will take some time before my head clears and I view the lesson DVD.

You freakin' numbnutz have ruint my thread! Mike I want a spot in FRIDGE NUMBER 1!!!! Right beside Nel Carter.

Mike . . . . What role does the Right Arm play in LEFT ARM SWINGING?

Focus!

P.S. Y'all don't want none of EC . . . he is a golf assassin.

Please, Daryl. It was NOT a correction. I was curiuos about the lesson. Ben is a big pull, float loaded, snap releasing kinda of guy. Hard to see him without a club in his left hand rolling and swiveling it.
The wonderful thing about a right arm that straightens THROUGH a ball is the power it produces even when the arm is more or less passive.

Ben will fry your brain but it heals nicely- hahaha. The Golfing Machine is like that.

Please share more of the lesson experience with us when the head clears:)

Alright Lard Bucket! You want the truth YOU can't handle the truth!
 

[quote=12 piece bucket]What role or function does the Right Arm play in Swinging?
We are loading the Left Wrist (No. 2) . . . but the Right Arm stays Passive no? What kind of Right Arm thoughts should the Swinger have?

Are we just using the Law of the Triangle and just pulling our PASSIVE Triangle DOWNPLANE?[/QUOTE]

Here's where to start. You've got to differentiate what the ideal mechanical structure should be as opposed to what you are concentrating on in the swing. The difference between what you are trying to do when you are playing for instance and what you are feeling, thinking when you are working on your swing or in this particular instance the right arm if say your structure isn't very good. They are two completely different things.

So let's assume that you are happy with the structure of your power package and everything else in your movement- then what are you thinking about- i.e. trying to do- section 5-0 third and 4th paragraphs (both in the 6th and 7th editions) You are taking your hands up and down the plane- THAT's your focus- that's the Golfing Machine- don't lose sight of it.

What role or function does the Right Arm play in Swinging?
Extensor action via right triceps (That's either happening or something you would work on to add to your movement to make it automatic and part of the movement) not something you are thinking about doing for the rest of your golfing life.

We are loading the Left Wrist (No. 2)
Don't like the way you stated this- "WE" or "I" implies that you are thinking about it - making it happen. No. The left wrist is loading because you are swinging- it's part of the movement. But #3 is being loaded also, maybe #4 also- so #2 is not the only thing going on - there is alot of stuff going on.

. . . but the Right Arm stays Passive no?
Passive is a relative term in relation to Active thrusting in regards to hitting. Due to extensor action and if you want A) the proper structure to the powerpackage then you have anything but a passive right arm and B) that #3 pressure point, right forearm and the right upper arm - all support the load. That's not passive - if something is coming at you and you are "directly in line and opposed to that motion" in order to stop it. You can't load it- stop it and be passive. Active and Passive really applies more directly to the pressure points and if they are primarily aiming or thrusting- it's somewhat of a separate issue in regards to the Right Arm and really a separate issue in regards to Hitting also- as say for example the #4 pressure point could be active in both swinging and hitting- also may be active in the start down and then passive after that- lot's of options.

What kind of Right Arm thoughts should the Swinger have?
See 5-0. And my post above. NONE. Unless you are working on something to improve the structure- motion.

Are we just using the Law of the Triangle
No you are not using the Law of the Triangle- It may apply or be happening but you don't use the Law of the Triangle.

....and just pulling our PASSIVE Triangle DOWNPLANE?

As Compda pointed out- If you've got a passive triangle- then head over to the kiddy park - because that won't cut it in the big boys park.

Here again you have to differentiate what's happening and what you are trying to do.

In the what's happening category you could certainly say that you are pulling the Solid triangle structure Down plane- although specifically the only part of the Triangle that's on plane from the top to impact are the Hands the whole way, the right shoulder at the top and through startdown.

However, on the what am I thinking about category or what am I trying to do category- NO- you are not trying to pull the Triangle Downplane. You've got the same triangle in the baseball batter's swing- would you think when you're hitting the baseball that you are trying to pull the triangle to the hit the ball. It's 5-0, the hands and their clubhead lag - that's what you are trying to move and that's where your focus should be.

Now, I'm going to go back just to harassing you!:happy3:

P.S. I just crossed the CA/AZ border headed your way!:hang:

Bagger- I'd really like to see a skeleton head with ice on it- in the emoticon list- IS THAT TOO MUCH TOO ASK FOR!!!!!!

[quote=Mike O]Thank you O'Master of the Rolling Human Head! Fantastic Post! This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for rather than a rehashed debate on the merits or lack there of of Right Arm Swinging.


Boy you can peddle that Green Machine pretty fast!!! See you in NC you're gettin' close when you smell pig smokin'.

Bagger
 

[quote=12 piece bucket]Thanks BBQ Man!

Now, Bagger I'm not letting you off- do I get the frosty skeleton head or not!

[quote=Mike O]Halloween is coming soon. Be patient and remember...
Don't try to butter me up. Other cannibals have tried.

Thanks,

[quote=Bagger Lance]Difference is Mike O would ACTUALLY schmeer butter all over you . . .

[quote=Mike O]Mikey . . . Now I'm Jackin' in my on thread . . .uh huh.

Do you think the Pressure Points be "overloaded?"

The Pot calling the Kettle Black
 

[quote=12 piece bucket]If anyone would schmeer butter - that would be YOU bucket. What goes with a nice barbeque- buttered corn and butter rolls! Don't try to toss that one on me!

I'm taking Bagger's post seriously- I really believe he's going to try to add one more emoticon to the list- I'll be on the edge of my seat for the next month!

And Bucket- you ARE thread jacking your own thread- DG's out there thinking "what the hell!"-

Wow - what a great place!

[quote=Mike O]Yeah . . . but if you start the Right Arm Swing thingie again it turns into romper room. . . . I may cut MY own head off.

You ever had FRIED CORN??? Anybody ever down in Myrtle Beach head to Crabcatchers (it's an eatin' joint not a hoochie joint) and order the Fried Grouper Samich and Fried Cone on the Cob . . . it is an EXPERIENCE!!

Back in the day when the TGM website had a forum, I remember some of the forum members talking about Ben teaching 4 barrel swinging...I'm under the impression he taught 4 barrel swinging to all levels of golfers including little old ladies...really!!! I'm not joking about that...

DG

Based on his tape . . . I think you would be correct.

I remember making similar statements but not about four barrel. Ben teaches the same stroke pattern to everyone- young or old, man or women. It is a deep pivot transportation of the hands to a snap release float loaded on the downswing. A very cool swing- hand controlled. Ben’s hands have a PhD so don’t think it’s a pivot controlled stroke- no way. Ben teaches this to everyone but, as he told me, settles for less from a student. He sets the bar high so the student can attempt to achieve perfection.

I still believe any four barrel stroke is more a Hit pattern than a Swing pattern. Less of a blur and whirl and more of a crash and smash with a early swivel. BUT….

I now think an exceptional athlete with a God-given gift of POWER, like a boxer who can knock you out in the clinches with a three inch jab or a hockey player that can toss you into the boards with a flick of his shoulders can four barrel swing. But only them.

I think if someone can turn on their power inside a quarter inch before impact, after CF has been release and is slowing down, acc#3 is finished- if that exceptional athlete can turn on that Boxer like punch inside that time frame- he can four barrel. I rare person.

Strength is not power, btw. The straighten of the right arm through impact is neither exclusive to Hitting or Right arm swinging. Ben always teaches that the right arm is always driving. Extensor Action it is.

6b

What ever!!!! Mike did you take a lesson with Ben...and I don't mean over the phone?

yes
 

Whatever??? That's a mature response. I'm out of these right is tops and left is quaint, TT taught posts. It's like a Bill Joel song- if you catch my drift.

Yes I have.

6b

Accumulator Release is 4,1,2,3 no?. The Downstroke Sequence is Feet, Knees,Hips, Shoulders, Arms , Right Elbow, Left Wristcock/ and or Left Hand Rotation.
Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered and timed as the players understanding and skill permit.
To 4 Barrel Swing then one would, shortly after Start Down, apply a Strong Pressure Point #1 Thrust ( To the Left Arm only). Do you think this is a 4 Accumulator Left Arm Swing?.

Mike...I'm sorry but you're not making any sense.

DG

From little I know of Ben, he doesn't teach a 4 barrel but he does as some have eluded here have a driving right arm in his words.

Believe it was one of his student teachers who once profiled Ben's teaching and that wasn't 4 barrel. Ben's tape isn't 4 barrel as I recall either.

Will search for the post where Ben's style was covered. It was actually detailed and very good as opposed to other post that use one or two words to describe a TGM instructor style.

Ben Doyle's Preferred Pattern
 

Ben Doyle is a Master of his craft who helps each student achieve his or her own unique potential.

That said, his well-known preference is for the 3rd Edition's Basic Four Accumulator Pivot Stroke -- "a hypothetically ideal Pattern..." That Pattern (3rd Edition/12-4) features Maximum Component Participation and includes three caveats:

1. Almost any catalogued Component change will simplify it.

2. It requires "the most practice, fortitude and dedication."

3. It is for "the gifted competitor."