Role of the Right Shoulder
 

I understand that the role of the right shoulder in the golf is that it stays back and on the plane.
Now if the right shoulder moves forward or out towards the target line,how does that affect your golf shot? Does not rotating your hips automatically cause the right shoulder to jut out?

I just felt like posting, so here's a quick note. Someone else might tear it apart, but at least we get this started.

"Back and on plane" does not sound bad.

The actual role of the right shoulder depends on whether you are hitting or swinging. Swingers use it as a flywheel - spinning down on plane - once the hips have lead the way. Hitters uses the right shoulder as a base for "the hit", so it'll stay more "back".

Shoulders moving out sounds like level shoulders. That would cause roundhousing, i.e. going the wrong way. The eyes will tell the Computer: "we'd better do some out-to-in if we want to hit the ball at all".

The shoulders are leading the clubhead to a location high above the ball. The Computer does not want that. So it'll tell the hands to fix it. The reaction is flipping the hands in order to make the clubhead hit the ball.

That will in turn default to a pull, duckhook or hook. The hook tendency is often combatted by an open face and/or chicken-winging, most likely causing a slice.

Either way the result depends heavily on hand manipulation.
No. Hips and shoulders do not move as a unit.

In general I feel getting the shoulders on the right track will immediately take the game to the next level.

Not saying it is easy.

The more the shoulders go out and above the plane the faster the left wrist must uncock to strike the ball. So you will more than likely:

1) lose swing speed
2) start fading the ball
3) ultimately, hitting it shorter

Thanks for a great indepth response!

Can you say....Over The TOP? :) Right shoulder stays back, onplane as commanded by the hands - key words? - ON PLANE!

They may I suppose and they may not I suppose.

How's that for an answer???
:eyes:

I am a swinger, why if I use the right shoulder to go down on the start of the downswing, the shot is quite good, but usually not enough power for a full finish?

If I use the left leg, hip, left chest to pull it will have a lot of power, but usually a pull or hook due to I guess the shoulder goes out.

Then I try the left pulling, the right shoulder going down but its difficult, is this the right motion?

When driving the right shoulder down plane, what does the right hip do? If the right hip moves out towards the ball, I hit shanks, fat shots and cannot compress the ball at all. Keeping the hip back works well if I drve the right shoulder down plane. Question, does the right hip move towards the ball at all in a proper swinging procedure or does it only turn behind the toe line? Has anyone else thought about this?

Hardest thing for me to learn
 

This is a great issue and one that was the hardest for me to learn. I have played since I was 17 and always tended to fade the ball or slice depending upon how hard I swung. I struggled for years and worked on my grip (stronger and stronger) to no avail. Last year I rediscovered TGM and began filming and look, look, looking at what I was really doing.

Long story short, roundhousing so grip changes were not the answer....well, not the real answer.

I began trying to work my right shoulder down and had a heck of a time. I then thought, get my left shoulder up on the downswing and the right will go down. Worked some but not all of the time.

Then one night, on TGC, I saw Martin Hall demonstrate a drill that helped me tremendously. You take your stance at the with your driver. Then take the driver and place it across your shoulders with the grip toward the target flush with your left shoulder and the head out the back (about two feet sticking out the back). Then you backswing to the top and on the downswing, try to hit the ball with the head of the driver (which you can't of course). This will give you immediate feel of getting the right shoulder down on plane. If you have not been doing this then it will feel quite different.

This single drill got me to focus on my right shoulder and I can now feel immediately when I am not down on plane with my right shoulder. I took film after this drill and the difference is quite startling. The only drawback has been that now I have to ensure I don't come under a bit (which is far better than over).

Been drawing the ball for the first time.....ever in my playing life and it is great. My buddies have noticed too since my distance immediately improved. Another side issue is that I have noticed my wrist cock now is much deeper into my swing than before which I have attributed to my shoulders pulling my hands down rather than me hitting with my hands from the top.

Try this........I have shown this to a few folks on the range, and it has worked for everyone that has tried it.

ditto for me on the right hip; if it goes out, bad things happen. Besides the shank, the worst is the well-compressed, very long pull shot that is off the planet.

When Ted worked with me on this in April, I had to feel like my hips were frozen on the downswing. Clear the hip going back, then a little lateral slide/bump to start things down, but that's it. The problem isn't gone by any means...it's been a tough one for me, but these few things have helped me the most...

1) tracing

2) pulling the butt-end of the club straight to/through the ball - try it without thinking about or moving your hips...let them be moved instead.

3) feel/sense my right elbow, still bent, brush in front of my right hip on the downswing (clearing the right hip). This one helped me really start to see #2

4) balance - especially paying attention to sensing where my weight is via my feet. If my weight gets at all towards the toes of my right foot on the backswing, I'm dead.

Still, my tendency is to fire my hips through pretty quick. On the latest video I shot, my right hip had moved quite a bit before impact, but if I do those things above, it stays out of the way - more of a "turn behind the toe line" like you mentioned. That, however, is a result of what I'm trying to accomplish w/ that list above vs. a conscious swing thought about my hip(s).

That thought alone could help a lot of folks!