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-   -   No Good...No Good...Baby, You're No Good! (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4363)

Yoda 03-02-2007 02:14 AM

No Good...No Good...Baby, You're No Good!
 
One of the most popular free videos on the PGA TOUR's website is Brian Gay's putt on the 17th hole in the final round of the 2000 Honda Classic. In just his second full year on TOUR, Brian opened with a 65 and was tied for the lead. Coming into the 17th in the final round, he was only one shot back of the leader, Dudley Hart. Putting from the fringe, Brian stroked a 30-footer dead center of the hole, but it stopped just short and hung on the lip. He walked briskly to the hole and stood well aside it, motioning for the ball to go in. After a few seconds, the ball obeyed and fell in for a birdie. Brian was now tied for the lead.

Brian was disappointed when he bogeyed the 18th, but he was devastated by what happened next. In a very controversial call after play was completed, official Slugger White ruled that he had violated the 10-second rule (Rule 16-2) on the 17th. Brian suffered a 1-shot penalty that changed his birdie to a par, dropped him from 2nd to 4th and cost him $90,000. It was his first career top-10, but he most definitely did not feel like celebrating.

To see it as it happened, click on http://www.pgatour.com/video/partner...rd_gay.pgatour

alex_chung 03-02-2007 04:44 AM

I remember watching that putt. Man that was harsh decision wasn't it?
If I remember the rule correctly, the 10 second clock starts once you get to the ball so if Brian took his normal time getting to the ball then he might of been ok.
A tough ruling for a 2nd year Pro though.
Alex

Yoda 03-02-2007 11:40 AM

The Man Made the Putt
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_chung (Post 39295)

Man that was harsh decision wasn't it? If I remember the rule correctly, the 10 second clock starts once you get to the ball so if Brian took his normal time getting to the ball then he might of been ok.

A tough ruling for a 2nd year Pro though.

Brian told me the story over dinner in Palm Desert, California, when we were preparing for the new season back in January. I had never seen the video and, in fact, was totally unfamiliar with the situation. But I can tell you that he got fire in his eyes recounting what happened!

For the reason you have stated and because of his proximity to the ball -- he never came close to being able to address it -- he absolutely feels the rule was misapplied in this case.

We never discussed any rules applications to other players -- Brian's comments were directed specifically to his situation only -- but I can only wonder what would have happened had the same putt been stroked from the blade of one Tiger Woods. Care to guess, anyone? :-k :sunny:

These are the same rules officials that, at the 1999 Phoenix Open, allowed Tiger's gallery to join together and move a huge boulder weighing hundreds of pounds from the line of his shot. :occasion: http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/so...es_ver4_hi.ram The rule permitting such an outrageous miscarriage of the intent of 'fair play' has since been changed: I mean, when it 'takes a village' to move a natural 'movable' obstruction, is it really movable? And would the 'enlist the gallery' strategy even been an option for a player of lesser stature (or more practically, of lesser gallery)? In lieu of such a gallery, would another player have called in the grounds crew? Or solicited members of another player's gallery? I think not. On the other hand, to his credit, what player other than Tiger would have had the foresight -- or the nerve -- to have called for such a ruling?

And these are the same officials that, at last year's WGC Bridgestone Invitational, ruled that Tiger's shot into the 18th was not OB despite the fact that it sailed over the roof of the clubhouse behind the green and into the dessert man's pie as he unloaded his cart in the parking lot behind it. Not to mention the fact that they couldn't find the ball within the five minutes allotted by rules. Such inconveniences were not a problem: By the officials' own account, they had "evidence" of what might have happened! Well, there you go! And so, El Tigre got a free drop just a few yards from the putting surface and salvaged a most fortituous 5. For more, click here: http://www.pga.com/news/tours/pga-to...tone082506.cfm

It's good to be "The King!" :notworthy

alex_chung 03-02-2007 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 39303)
Brian told me the story over dinner in Palm Desert, California, when we were preparing for the new season back in January. I had never seen the video and, in fact, was totally unfamiliar with the situation. But I can tell you that he got fire in his eyes recounting what happened!

For the reason you have stated and because of his proximity to the ball -- he never came close to being able to address it -- he absolutely feels the rule was misapplied in this case.

We never discussed any rules applications to other players -- Brian's comments were directed specifically to his situation only -- but I can only wonder what would have happened had the same putt been stroked from the blade of one Tiger Woods. Care to guess, anyone? :-k :sunny:

These are the same rules officials that, at the 1999 Phoenix Open, allowed Tiger's gallery to join together and move a huge boulder weighing hundreds of pounds from the line of his shot. http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/so...es_ver4_hi.ram The rule permitting such an outrageous miscarriage of the intent of 'fair play' has since been changed: I mean, when it 'takes a village' to move a natural 'movable obstruction,' is it really movable? And would the 'enlist the gallery' strategy even been an option for a player of lesser stature (or more practically, of lesser gallery)? I think not. On the other hand, to his credit, what player other than Tiger would have had the foresight -- or the nerve -- to have called for such a ruling?

And these are the same officials that, at last year's WGC Bridgestone Invitational, ruled that Tiger's shot into the 18th was not OB despite the fact that it sailed over the roof of the clubhouse behind the green and into the dessert man's pie as he unloaded his cart in the parking lot behind it. And the fact that they couldn't find the ball within the five minutes allotted by rules was not a problem: By the officials' own account, they had "evidence" of what might have happened! Well, there you go! And so, El Tigre got a free drop just a few yards from the putting surface and salvaged a most fortituous 5. For more, click here: http://www.pga.com/news/tours/pga-to...tone082506.cfm

It's good to be "The King." :notworthy

I agree with you my friend. If it happened to Tiger it would of been ok and nothing would of happened. Its almost as if they are scared to give him an unfavourable but correct ruling.
A similar thing with a putt happened to Sam Torrance a while back, he was playing in the English Open and had a birdie or eagle putt (I can't remember which) and the ball hung on the lip and then fell in. Again he was in close proximity of the putt so stood over the ball before it fell as he felt it was still moving (penalty for striking a moving ball) Everyone thought it was a 3 and that enabled him to go into the lead of the tournament, it wasn't until after the round that it was deemed to be a 4 by the tournament officials and this changed the whole course of the the tournament as Sam lost the title by you guess it one shot from Mark James.
Alex

6bmike 03-02-2007 01:58 PM

Let's not forget the huge pile of trash DEEP into the woods that allowed Ernie Els to get RELIEF when his very stray Tee shot sliced into the trees. I forget where.


Language is why we have attorneys.

alex_chung 03-02-2007 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6bmike (Post 39306)
Let's not forget the huge pile of trash DEEP into the woods that allowed Ernie Els to get RELIEF when his very stray Tee shot sliced into the trees. I forget where.


Language is why we have attorneys.

I think that was at the Masters one year. It was the year that had VJ, Goosen, Els challenging for the title (I think Tiger won maybe)
I remember seeing that one and you could see the ball move and then a Marshall /Member as well as the Referee said it was GUR so he ended with a free drop.
Alex

glcoach 03-02-2007 04:10 PM

The Ernie Els "piled for removal" ruling of brush 30 yards into the woods was funny. Even more funny was Ernie, hard balling the official to make the ruling, the rules official looked somewhat frightened at what Ernie might do if he had ruled the other way.

6bmike 03-02-2007 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glcoach (Post 39310)
The Ernie Els "piled for removal" ruling of brush 30 yards into the woods was funny. Even more funny was Ernie, hard balling the official to make the ruling, the rules official looked somewhat frightened at what Ernie might do if he had ruled the other way.

He also got to remove or lower a wire in a US Open that helped him beat, I think, Montgomery. Well some rulings have merit then. :laughing1

Yoda 03-02-2007 10:26 PM

Rules Is Rules...Maybe
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by glcoach (Post 39310)

The Ernie Els "piled for removal" ruling of brush 30 yards into the woods was funny. Even more funny was Ernie, hard balling the official to make the ruling, the rules official looked somewhat frightened at what Ernie might do if he had ruled the other way.


This reminds me of a true story from the Nicklaus era.

In those days, many rules 'officials' were not so official at all. For the most part, they were assembled week-to-week from corporate volunteers willing to assume the task. And while it may be unkind to suggest that they were 'pushovers,' just imagine for a moment that you are an IBM employee --Everyman -- suddenly face-to-face with Jack Dad-Gum Nicklaus (asking for a ruling in a PGA TOUR event). It is your worst nightmare, and it is happening to you now and on national TV.

:shock:

Well, here you go...

The Great Man's ball had missed the fairway and was lying somewhat imbedded in scruffy grass. He called for an official, and to his delight, Everyman appeared.

"I think I should get relief here," said JACK. "It appears to be in Ground under Repair."

"Bummer, Jack, " said Our Hero, "but there are no white lines, and hence, no Ground Under Repair."

"HHrrummhh," grunted The Great Man. "Well, then," said he...

"The ball appears to be imbedded. I should get relief!"

"Hmmm...I don't think so," said Everyman. "The ball does appear to be imbedded, but..."

"We are not playing the imbedded ball rule today."

"I see," said The Great Man. "Well, how about a hole made by a burrowing animal? "

"With all due respect, Mr. Nicklaus, I see no such hole and no such animal."

"Thank you, sir. Just thought I'd ask!" :) :salut: :occasion:

Then it's KA-BOOM and down the fairway. Just another moment in time. A moment often lost, by the way, in the early rounds and with the television cameras looking elsewhere.

These guys, especially those at the top, are looking justifiably for every advantage they can get. A relief ruling that saves them just one stroke per tournament equals one-quarter stroke per round.

The difference between losing...

And winning.

alex_chung 03-03-2007 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 39317)
This reminds me of a true story from the Nicklaus era.

In those days, many rules 'officials' were not so official at all. For the most part, they were assembled week-to-week from corporate volunteers willing to assume the task. And while it may be unkind to suggest that they were 'pushovers,' just imagine for a moment that you are an IBM employee --Everyman -- suddenly face-to-face with Jack Dad-Gum Nicklaus (asking for a ruling in a PGA TOUR event). It is your worst nightmare, and it is happening to you now and on national TV.

:shock:

Well, here you go...

The Great Man's ball had missed the fairway and was lying somewhat imbedded in scruffy grass. He called for an official, and to his delight, Everyman appeared.

"I think I should get relief here," said JACK. "It appears to be in Ground under Repair."

"Bummer, Jack, " said Our Hero, "but there are no white lines, and hence, no Ground Under Repair."

"HHrrummhh," grunted The Great Man. "Well, then," said he...

"The ball appears to be imbedded. I should get relief!"

"Hmmm...I don't think so," said Everyman. "The ball does appear to be imbedded, but..."

"We are not playing the imbedded ball rule today."

"I see," said The Great Man. "Well, how about a hole made by a burrowing animal? "

"With all due respect, Mr. Nicklaus, I see no such hole and no such animal."

"Thank you, sir. Just thought I'd ask!" :) :salut: :occasion:

Then it's KA-BOOM and down the fairway. Just another moment in time. A moment often lost, by the way, in the early rounds and with the television cameras looking elsewhere.

These guys, especially those at the top, are looking justifiably for every advantage they can get. A relief ruling that saves them just one stroke per tournament equals one-quarter stroke per round.

The difference between losing...

And winning.

Great story Lynn. I suppose if the players don't ask they don't get, they are after every advantage that they can get.
Alex


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