Flat as possible?
 

The ideal Shoulder Turn is the Standard Variation of 10-13-A. This
involves a Backstroke Turn 'as Flat as possible' back to the Plane,
followed by a Downstroke Turn down the Plane.


Could someone please clarify this for me? I don't understand what is meant by "as Flat as possible back to the plane".

Where did "Flat as possible" come from?

The book says that "...Shoulder Turn which places the Shoulder “On Plane” for any Plane Angle with a flatter angle than the Rotated Shoulder Angle." It is named "Flat" "relatively Flat" but is surely not as Flat as one can turn.

"On Plane" is about the "Steepest"
"Rotated" is still pretty steep (90 degrees to the Spine)
"Flat" is just below Rotated

I can't answer that.

But, maybe it has something to do with:

D, I'd say you're bang on there with that quote.

I believe the "flat as possible" shoulder turn on the backstroke is ones best effort to get the right shoulder onto the shaft plane........which cant be done most likely if the club is flatly soled anyways.

Why do this? To minimize the plane shift necessary to get the Hands and Right Shoulder onto the same Inclined Plane at Top. A TSP. The TSP is not a singular plane angle, there's a range, the flatter the less the associated Plane Shift gong back and then down........which isnt necessarily a particularly flat swing in common parlance.

Understanding, employing the TSP forgoes the necessity for "vertical drop" or any other compensation that some teachers promote as "the" method. It just aint so, its "a" method only and one Homer described himself for those who choose a plane angle higher than a TSP. But I digress. Homer's Turned Shoulder Plane is pure genius. Its worth the study as its the cure for many of golfs ills which appear in transition, "at the crossroads of the swing " as Homer referred to it.

"The TSP is not a singular plane angle, there's a range".
This is great information thank you .
Let me get this right though. If I a choose a plane angle higher then TSP I need a vertical drop to get back to the TSP ? Why couldn' I use the TSP and than use a vertical drop and use a flatter plane back to the ball?

Yes. Assuming you want to Startdown with your Shoulders , your Right Shoulder specifically pulling the Hands down the Inclined Plane. If you didnt drop them down vertically to the TSP the Right Shoulder and the Hands would be on different Plane angles at top and any pulling of the Hands by the Shoulders ( a very good thing) would be an off plane pull.

Re your second question......You can, its in the book, 10-7 B Single Shift assuming you stayed on the TSP on the Backswing or 10-7-C Double Shift assuming you shifted to the TSP on the Backswing from the elbow plane and back again going down. These are your garden variety shifts. But even then, the Down the TSP movement of the Right Shoulder in Startdown will pull the Hands down the same Plane towards the Plane Line. A brief but critical period. A very good thing, maybe something that separates the Pros' from the Hackers. Zero shift is a rarity I believe. I bolded "brief" because you can't take the right shoulder all the way down the TSP , eventually the right shoulder moves outside it but by then the Hands are catching another ride down the TSP from the arms.

If you get on the TSP at Top but then move the Right Shoulder flat instead of down plane............you'd get your Hands pulled out , over the plane again. Sort of like the Twist Shift 10-7 whatever.

The other way to look at this is to see it from the 6-M-1 perspective.......the ground/up Downswing Sequence. Assuming you dont wont to start down with your Hands but with rather with your Shoulders to pull the Hands........there is only one way to achieve it. You must get the Hands and the Right Shoulder on the same Inclined Plane for that brief period when the shoulders are pulling the Hands, Startdown.

As an aside this relates to an age old argument about what "Hands to Pivot" is. Hands to Pivot to my mind anyways does not mean that the Hands proceed the Pivot sequentially in Startup. No Sir. In Startdown I'd argue that with your brain in your Hands, this TSP/Standard Shoulder Turn business is still Hands to Pivot despite the fact your Hands are being pulled by the Shoulders. Your Hands are still sensing , aiming , directing despite their free ride courtesy of the Right Shoulder. Like a hitchhiker who turns into a backseat driver.


Perhaps I over stated an observation after watching a particular guy teach vertical drop. There's nothing wrong with vertical drop , a plane shift to a lower plane although plane shifts are hazardous until perfected. But he's teaching it as a master move with no regard for alignments. It solves a lot of problems for guys who have higher backswing, like the guys back in the '70's or whatever but its not a cure all , magic move or anything. What would happen if you took a guy who had a beautiful but minimal shift from the TSP down to the Elbow Plane with a level left wrist , a Right Forearm Flying Wedge at Impact and then got him to vertically drop his Hands two feet? We might never have heard of Ben Hogan. Position golf , ugh.

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