How far is the Low Point Plane Line from the Impact Plane Line?

[ChrisNZ]

I think its primarily to do with plane angle. Lets say your plane is at 60 degrees to the ground. For every centimetre you go down, you'll go out half a cm. Say you impact the ball (for arguments sake) with the leading edge at ground level at separation - at separation your impact point should be directly in the (horizontal) middle of the ball on the target line. And say you dig at divot 1 cm deep, then low point (for the horizontal middle of your club/horizontal sweetspot) should be 0.5cm outside the target line/horizontal middle of the ball). Of course it may look further out - by the distance from the middle of your club to the toe - because that's where the outside of you divot is.

Chris

[Sonic_Doom]

I hope we get to an answer on this topic. And not simply that there's too many variables to produce an answer.

If we look at 2-C-1#1 we must be able to give a value for the offset in the impact point and offset to low point.

CW

[12 piece bucket]

I think its primarily to do with plane angle. Lets say your plane is at 60 degrees to the ground. For every centimetre you go down, you'll go out half a cm. Say you impact the ball (for arguments sake) with the leading edge at ground level at separation - at separation your impact point should be directly in the (horizontal) middle of the ball on the target line. And say you dig at divot 1 cm deep, then low point (for the horizontal middle of your club/horizontal sweetspot) should be 0.5cm outside the target line/horizontal middle of the ball). Of course it may look further out - by the distance from the middle of your club to the toe - because that's where the outside of you divot is.

Chris

I think you are on it.

[dkerby]

Great topic fellows. Homer basically said that all strokes
were the same. For overspin, he illustrated the impact above
the center of the ball with reverse loft. There is a big
question at weather the shaft was leaning forward or weather
he was using a putter with reverse loft. Anyway I guess this
brings up the question of, should you impact the ball above
the equator and go to the lower pont.. Some on the forum
suggest playing the ball forward of low point and impact above
low point which suggest deaccelation and less compression.
Bobby Locke suggest this method in saying that the club should
reach the ball before the hands. How about fail? After the
head of the clubhead passes the handle the the clubhead works
back to the handled causing deacceleration. Homer did suggest
impacting the ball at LOW POINT AND ABOVE THE CENTER OF THE
BALL. How can you do this and still go to the second plane
line down and in front to the first plane line? The same old
question, should you impact above the ball and then go to
to the second plane line forward and down from the first
plane line? In a conversation with Lynn, Homer said that
Lynn could move the ball back in his stance, using a bullseye
putter, but this suggest a shaft leaning forward. From the
literal words of Homer, pg 74, Transfer power, the swinger
can use A "REVERSE LOFTED" PUTTER for a precision "LOW POINT"
IMPACT - really a very accurate and simple procedure. If a
putter is on the gound a impact with reverse loft, the putter
actuall impacts the ball above center. This suggest that if
the ball was placed at low point, the second plane line could
be obtained without having to lean the putter forward providing
that the putter had reversed loft build in to in. Maybe this
discussion sould be in the putting section, but we are talking
about the low point plane line. I guess the overall question.
is what about the low point plane line for putting?

[Martee]

Some thoughts to consider regarding Low Point and Low Point Plane Line

1. Low Point is defined by the lead edge of the club head or the sole of the club head based on the stroke being played in referenc to the ground.
2. Low Point Plane Line is defined using the Low Point and constructing a parallel line to the Plane Line.
3. Low Point is not defined as full extension of the Primary Lever Assembly.
4. Low Point does not have to reside in the ground or at ground level (special shots, tee shots, putts, any shot that doesn't create a divot)


Some thoughts to consider regarding Impact Point and Impact Point Plane Line

1. Impact Point is define as the first moment of contact between the club head and the ball. (Ideally on normal shots this would be at the equator to the inside of the ball vertical axis)
2. Impact Point Plane Line is defined using the Low Point and construction a parallel line to the Plane Line.
3. Impact Point is only on the Impact Point Plane Line at the initial point of contact and can be located on the Impact Point Plane Line after separation based on the stroke.
4. Impact Point and Separation can not be the same point.
5. Impact Point is normally inside and above the Separation Point which both are above the Low Point. (3 dimensional golf stroke)



Next what is the impact of the ball location with regard to Low Point?

How does Ball Height from the ground impact this?

[12 piece bucket]

Some thoughts to consider regarding Low Point and Low Point Plane Line

1. Low Point is defined by the lead edge of the club head or the sole of the club head based on the stroke being played in referenc to the ground.
2. Low Point Plane Line is defined using the Low Point and constructing a parallel line to the Plane Line.
3. Low Point is not defined as full extension of the Primary Lever Assembly.
4. Low Point does not have to reside in the ground or at ground level (special shots, tee shots, putts, any shot that doesn't create a divot)


Some thoughts to consider regarding Impact Point and Impact Point Plane Line

1. Impact Point is define as the first moment of contact between the club head and the ball. (Ideally on normal shots this would be at the equator to the inside of the ball vertical axis)
2. Impact Point Plane Line is defined using the Low Point and construction a parallel line to the Plane Line.
3. Impact Point is only on the Impact Point Plane Line at the initial point of contact and can be located on the Impact Point Plane Line after separation based on the stroke.
4. Impact Point and Separation can not be the same point.
5. Impact Point is normally inside and above the Separation Point which both are above the Low Point. (3 dimensional golf stroke)



Next what is the impact of the ball location with regard to Low Point?

How does Ball Height from the ground impact this?

Martee! Super graphics man! Question. . . on the overhead view . . . could you draw the LOC in there too? Since we are of course sustainers and manipulators of the LOC.

Awesome!

I think the height of the ball has nothing to do with it. But I do think the position of the ball in relation to low point has a HUGE effect.

[Martee]

The intent of the graphic was to show relationships. Including the LOC would require adjustment, need to think about this.

Ball Height is CRITICAL to Low Point and to Ball Position. Also Ball Position is critical to Angle/Arc of Attack.

If you were to position a golf ball in what would be your normal position, say for a 7 iron. Let say that was 1 inch forward of the center of your stance.

Now without making any adjustments, place a ball located off your rear foot, resting on the ground as was the original ball.

With the 7 iron how would you be able to hit the ball nearest your rear foot? Without adjusting your body or swing, what adjustments do you need to do to the ball to be able to make impact with the sweetspot of the club? Raise the Ball? Move the Ball in closer to the rear foot?

Granted doing this will not send the ball along the same target line that the center ball would, but this allows you to see the 3 dimensional golf stroke, backward, in and up, forward down and out.

When a golfer decides to change ball location, the golfer is required to make other adjustments as well to keep the 3 dimensional stoke in tact and make good contact.

Ever give much thought about hitting a ball which is lodged in a bush? Do you set up as normal but that the ball is just teed high?

[12 piece bucket]

The intent of the graphic was to show relationships. Including the LOC would require adjustment, need to think about this.

Ball Height is CRITICAL to Low Point and to Ball Position. Also Ball Position is critical to Angle/Arc of Attack.

If you were to position a golf ball in what would be your normal position, say for a 7 iron. Let say that was 1 inch forward of the center of your stance.

Now without making any adjustments, place a ball located off your rear foot, resting on the ground as was the original ball.

With the 7 iron how would you be able to hit the ball nearest your rear foot? Without adjusting your body or swing, what adjustments do you need to do to the ball to be able to make impact with the sweetspot of the club? Raise the Ball? Move the Ball in closer to the rear foot?

Granted doing this will not send the ball along the same target line that the center ball would, but this allows you to see the 3 dimensional golf stroke, backward, in and up, forward down and out.

When a golfer decides to change ball location, the golfer is required to make other adjustments as well to keep the 3 dimensional stoke in tact and make good contact.

Ever give much thought about hitting a ball which is lodged in a bush? Do you set up as normal but that the ball is just teed high?

Martee . . . I don't think the ball in relation to the ground has anything to do with it. Could be wrong though . . . but Low Point has no relationship to the ground. Its relationship is to the left shoulder. Regardless of where the ball is air or ground, there is a low point. You could tee up a driver and play it way back in from low point and still hit it. You'd just have to go out more right? Heck if I know.

Anyway . . . The Line of Compression is the Principle of Golf so it HAS to be relevant to the discussion.

LINE OF COMPRESSION Example – bullet hole through a baseball
Mechanical – the line through center of that area from which material flows when displaced by a compressing force.
Golf – The direction of the Impact Force, as related to the various centerlines, for determining Ball Behavior

My arguement would be the following:

Per 1-L #10,13, 14, & 15

10. The Lever Assembly must be driven through Impact by an On Plane force (moving toward the Plane Line).
13. The Clubhead travels Down-and-Out until it reaches its “Low Point.”
14. Divots are taken “Down-and-Out” – not just “Down.”
15. The Club starts up-and-in after “Low Point” but thrust continues down plane during the Follow-Through.

So the Line of Compression would have a relationship (or be along) the Angle of Approach which would just be the line connecting the Impact Point and Low Point?