Course Management How Important?

[12 piece bucket]

I played 9 holes with a Senior Tour player's caddy today. He said that he could take a 15 handicapper and in two weeks have him shooting around 75. He said mostly he would have him applying solid course management principals and picking the right club.

What do y'all think of this? I think this may be a bit ambitious. But you gotta PLAY the game right?

Side note: He did fire a 2 under 33.

[Martee]

From my observations, I am not sure you can get them to 75 unless they are pretty consistent with their stroke, not necessarily a great stroke, but consistency is needed.

Low 80's should be possible if the golfer can putt.

Club selection as well as how to play the hole makes a big difference to the score for the amateur golfer, especially with a high handicaper.

[birdie_man]

75 is 3 over par.....

lol.

3 over....15 handicapper.....I dunno- sketchy.

Maybe if they had a good short game.....then learned to hit a little "bunt" punch shot just to always keep it down the middle.....then get around green- up and down all over the place.

Still.....75 is ambitous big time.

80 is possible but still AMAZING (and prolly unprobable).

IMO.

[efnef]

Well... several years ago (not too long after I had taken the game back up after not playing since my teens), I had a 6 hole playing lesson with my instructor, with her acting as my caddy, that is, clubbing me and providing the course management. At this time, my best 18 hole round was a nifty 108. On this day I was 2 under for the 6 holes. Sooooo.... maybe he's not so far off.

[hue]

I played 9 holes with a Senior Tour player's caddy today. He said that he could take a 15 handicapper and in two weeks have him shooting around 75. He said mostly he would have him applying solid course management principals and picking the right club.

What do y'all think of this? I think this may be a bit ambitious. But you gotta PLAY the game right?

Side note: He did fire a 2 under 33.

Going from 87 to 75 due to improved course management only seems a tall order. However if you play like a moron I am sure a 75 shooter can easily notch up an 87. I know I did it yesterday.

[6bmike]

Course management for tournaments and low scores.
Moron golf for fun.

When I need a score, for team play or a tournament, course mangaement is the way to proceed- the game is so different than just having a tee time.

Me, I like Moron golf- it's fun, challanging and a learning experience to see what you really have in the tank. A three wood over high trees to cut the dogleg on a long par 5 isn't smart but... what the heck, let's give it a try- what's to lose?

[psheehan]

I played 9 holes with a Senior Tour player's caddy today. He said that he could take a 15 handicapper and in two weeks have him shooting around 75. He said mostly he would have him applying solid course management principals and picking the right club.

What do y'all think of this? I think this may be a bit ambitious. But you gotta PLAY the game right?

Side note: He did fire a 2 under 33.

Bucket,
Well... I haven't seen every 15 hc out there but I haven't seen 1 that anyone could take down to basically a 2 in two weeks under any circumstances.

I played golf from the time I was 14 until I was 22... then I quit for 20 yrs. When I started again I was approx. a 14. I played with mostly better players then myself.. from 8 to 10... One guy in particular insisted that my problem was course management, so I started keeping some very detailed statistics. My breakdown was pretty much 40% of my shots went roughly where they were intended...40% were playable misses and 20% were pretty awful.. but this was with almost EVERY club. The only clubs that were better were the 9i and pw and they were only marginally better. Of course the shorter the club used for the approach, the closer to the green the misses were. BUT the idea that an iron off a 350 yds par 4 to 'keep it in play' was not necessarily a good idea because it wasn't certain to keep it in play and actually reduced the % of times I hit the green.

One day I gave the guy a chance... we were partners and I let him club me... He had me hit NO drivers... with my driver I averaged 5.8 fairways (out of 12..2 short par 4's were not driver holes under any circumstances) with the 3 wood that day I hit 5 fairways... that day I hit 3 greens..2 were par 3's..one was a pw the other an 8i...I averaged 7 gir when using the driver. The end result was I shot mid 90's and he agreed that it didn't work. There is a whole chain reaction that occurred. One example (the only hole I remember)a 565 yd par 5... normally at that time driver, 3w (hope it was straight and solid) and then 6i to 8i...if 7 or 8 maybe on the green 40% of the time and right around the green 30% or so....I hit 3w solid, 3w straight but not great and then had 190.... because I got a stroke and there was a lot of trouble short left we laid up to 100 yds.. I did that okay and then my wedge was okay but about 30 ft away and I 3 putted...double.

The other downside of this approach is you never learn to hit aggressive scoring shots and in my case I never would have learned to hit the driver... and I'm not long enough to play without it, I'm actually not long enough with it..... This is one reason why I like playing an occasional round by myself or with my wife.. it gives me a chance to attempt heroic shots I wouldn't attempt when playing for a few bucks with a partner against some friends.....

In my experience there are a few recalcitrant golfers here and there that live for the long drive and consistently hit too little club in an effort to hit a 170yd 7i to 6 ft.....but even if one of those was a 15 he has too many problems to shot 75... maybe 82, maybe 80. I think most golfers know their games fairly well. They may be able to learn how to play a particular course from an experienced caddy/golfer and pick up a few strokes. However, while they may still make course management mistakes it is nowhere near 10 to 13 strokes a round.

[metallion]

I've gained some from better course management. I started collecting stats when playing my home course and after some 30 rounds I could see some very clear tendencies. Made adjustments one a few holes and got the average down by maybe 2-3 strokes.

So I think considering experimenting with more or less aggressive play on the par 4's and par 5's can save some strokes.

I think the best scores come from very conservative playing, but I feel the drawback is that that kind of play can not take you to the next level.

Example 1.
A long par 4 (430 yards) with a pond close to the green was my worst scoring hole on the course. I decided to stary playing it as a par 5. Result: Lowered my average on that hole by almost a shot.

Example 2.
A shortish par 5 of some 480 yards. I always played for eagle, but often got stung after a bad drive costing me a shot. I started playing it with a 3W which still left me a chance to go for the green or at lest get close to it. Result: Lots of birdies and lowered average by maybe half a shot.

Example 3.
Shortish par 4 with a difficult green area. Always played conservatively to avoid water, get in play and be on the fairway for the approach. I switched to start playing driver over a bunker and did not always end up on the fairway, but got closer to the green. Result: Lowered average by maybe half a shot.

Example 4.
Another relatively short par 5. After a reasonably good teeshot I often had to decide to go for the green (risky) or layup. One day I realized there is an in-between shot: Go for the green almost. Instead of trying to place the second shot on my wedge spot or hitting a wood to the green I hit a long iron running up to the green. That shot would guarantee that I did not flirt with the bunkers or trees (as with the go-for-green approach) but leave me 20 yards short of the green. It turned out I was much better at making birdie from that close-up location than from my wedge spot. Result: Less problems and many more birdie putts.