More Farewell To Arms

[Yoda]

6bee1dee wrote:

Yoda wrote: tgmgolfer2k2 wrote: What I've taken from my whole experience with Doyle's tape is that: 1) you think about your hands, 2) they are physically moved by the pivot, 3) you don't move the pivot. So the pivot actually physically is transporting your hands, but you're not physically moving your pivot. You're actually only moving your hands and the pivot is responding (if it's trained correctly). I hope everyone gets at what I mean here. The pivot moves, but I don't move it. The hands move, and I move them. But the pivot is actually physically responsible for moving the hands. [Bold by Yoda.]   yoda wrote: I hear Pivot. I hear Hands. But again I ask... What about the arms? Once again, Robot Buddy R2D2, you are on the right track in seeking to reconcile the various 'who did what to whom and where' problems of the Golf Stroke. Here's an assist. The Pivot is Zone #1 (Body Control / 9-1). The Hands are Zone #3 (Ball Control / 9-3). And it is true that the Zone #1 Pivot has Power Package Transport duties (7-12). But, when it comes to moving the Hands (and with them, the Club), what happened to the Arms -- Zone #2 (Club Control / 9-2)? Try this experiment: Keep your Pivot Components (Feet, Knees, Hips and Shoulders) absolutely stationary. Now, move the Club (and Hands) solely with your Arms. No problem, right? Especially if you use the Magical Right Forearm of 7-3! Now keep your Arms absolutely stationary and attempt to move the Club (and Hands) solely with your Pivot. Hmmm.... On the tape, the second student he is working with, BD says monitor your hands , know where they are at all times. He sets with a club and shows, "You have address hands, waggle hands, forward press hands, you have back swing hands, you have storage hands, release interval hands, impact hands, follow through hands, transfer follow through hands and finish hands." Thats a lot of hands. Later he goes through the same motion explaining the pivot. The pivot he says works for the hands, as he moves the club back and forth through a range of motion, Ben says, "Thank you pivot for getting me here", more motion, "Than you pivot for getting me through here." The pivot does the work that the hands want it to do. Hands CONTROL pivot. One other quick point I liked, the club travels in a straight line, the pivot, hips for Ben "switches the clubs ends." Grip pointed at target before impact changes with clubhead that was pointed away from target. With all that talk about Hogan's secret in the NY Times about his right knee and hip moving toward target at impact. Seems like BD teaches that as rountine. I know some don't like Ben all that much but this tape just bowls me over.

Hans,

There is no question that The Golfing Machine is a Hands ControlledSystem. I have embraced that system half my adult life and have made manyposts on this site explaining exactly why this is so. However, in this wholediscussion of 'Pivot moves the Hands' per tgmgolfer2k2's original quote andyour subsequent reply...

I hear Pivot.

I hear Hands.

And I understand that you are justifiably enamored with Ben's tape. All thatsaid, and at the risk of being obnoxiously repetitive, I ask...

What about the Arms? Seriously, the 'A' Word -- 'Arms' --is totally omitted from both your posts! Did they suddenly disappear?

The Arms are Zone #2 Power! And while Zone #1 (the Pivot Rotor) canand often does provide Power Package Transport -- especially in Total MotionStrokes (12-5-3) -- Zone #2 actively moves things, too. Especially when youconsider that the Right Shoulder -- as the third side of The Triangle (6-A-1)-- is not purely a Pivot Component but is also part of the Power Package.

Simplicity by omission does not make things simple. It only makes themincomplete.

 

 

tgmgolfer2k2 wrote:

What I've taken from my whole experience with Doyle's tape is that: 1) you think about your hands, 2) they are physically moved by the pivot, 3) you don't move the pivot. So the pivot actually physically is transporting your hands, but you're not physically moving your pivot. You're actually only moving your hands and the pivot is responding (if it's trained correctly). I hope everyone gets at what I mean here. The pivot moves, but I don't move it. The hands move, and I move them. But the pivot is actually physically responsible for moving the hands. [Bold by Yoda.]

Once again, Robot Buddy R2D2, you are on the right track in seeking toreconcile the various 'who did what to whom and where'problems of the Golf Stroke. Here's an assist.

The Pivot is Zone #1 (Body Control / 9-1). The Hands areZone #3 (Ball Control / 9-3). And it is true that the Zone #1 Pivot hasPower Package Transport duties (7-12). But, when it comes to moving the Hands(and with them, the Club), what happened to the Arms -- Zone #2 (ClubControl / 9-2)?

Try this experiment: Keep your Pivot Components (Feet, Knees, Hips andShoulders) absolutely stationary. Now, move the Club (and Hands) solelywith your Arms. No problem, right? Especially if you use the Magical RightForearm of 7-3! Now keep your Arms absolutely stationary andattempt to move the Club (and Hands) solely with your Pivot.

Hmmm....