I am always happy for progress Daryl as I have not hit perfection yet!
Thanks for the help in being Synchronized! It is cool to always feel the LAG!
ICT
So If I feel the lag in PP # 3 regularly, know how to fire it down plane with my back hip, the question will occur about where to fire the lag. I know I can fire it to the inner quadrant of the ball but where else and to what purpose?
Progress, not perfection!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I was glad to see Martin chuck's recognition of the Sweet spot related to PP # 3.
Since 1969 and its first edition, The Golfing Machine has made a difference.
In some lives more than others.
Mine being an extreme case!
Modern high-tech machines (such as TrackMan) are just now showing how rightHomer Kelley was. Dead since 1983, Homer would revel in today's instantaneous display of impact data. He would applaud the radar accuracy. He would, however, bristle at some of the conclusions drawn by these "nouveau scientists" and their followers.
Why?
Well, for starters, these conclusions are buttressed by those who subscribe to the service, pay dearly for the privilege, and who quite humanly reinforce its result. The "numbers" -- most mathematically derived -- and resultant bright displays dutifully reinforce the subscribers' dues and sentiments. I think this "new guard" is now enamored, empowered, and misled by their own assumptions.
At the 2011 PGA Merchandise Show, I had an extended two-hour conversation with TrackMan's father, Fredrik Tuxen. Since then, things have been playing out kinda as I expected. At least one or two of TrackMan's recent announcements have moved their "science" closer to Mr. Kelley's work, not further away. Go figure.
There still is at least one major issue in play: the correct Clubhead Path through Impact (and how to make it happen).
Do you swing to the "right" with the driver and to the "left" with everything else? Must the Plane Line rotate "Closed" with the driver (and its lauded "Upstroke") and "Open" with everything else (and their "Downstroke").
Since 1969 and its first edition, The Golfing Machine has made a difference.
In some lives more than others.
Mine being an extreme case!
Modern high-tech machines (such as TrackMan) are just now showing how rightHomer Kelley was. Dead since 1983, Homer would revel in today's instantaneous display of impact data. He would applaud the radar accuracy. He would, however, bristle at some of the conclusions drawn by these "nouveau scientists" and their followers.
Why?
Well, for starters, these conclusions are buttressed by those who subscribe to the service, pay dearly for the privilege, and who quite humanly reinforce its result. The "numbers" -- most mathematically derived -- and resultant bright displays dutifully reinforce the subscribers' dues and sentiments. I think this "new guard" is now enamored, empowered, and misled by their own assumptions.
At the 2011 PGA Merchandise Show, I had an extended two-hour conversation with TrackMan's father, Fredrik Tuxen. Since then, things have been playing out kinda as I expected. At least one or two of TrackMan's recent announcements have moved their "science" closer to Mr. Kelley's work, not further away. Go figure.
There still is at least one major issue in play: the correct Clubhead Path through Impact (and how to make it happen).
Do you swing to the "right" with the driver and to the "left" with everything else? Must the Plane Line rotate "Closed" with the driver (and its lauded "Upstroke") and "Open" with everything else (and their "Downstroke").
We'll see how it goes . . .
Great post Yoda. So great to have a system to believe in while others are being led in circles. Fine tuning as we go, no need to rewrite the book.
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Holding a golf ball in my right index finger-aim point and circles and planes
Originally Posted by KevCarter
Great post Yoda. So great to have a system to believe in while others are being led in circles. Fine tuning as we go, no need to rewrite the book.
Kevin
On my last day with Lynn or so, he showed me how to hold a golf ball in my right index finger so my finger looked like a question mark. Not only did that show me how to put my right hand on the club, but it is also my model now for throwing the ball via Aim Point on the plane. Homer taught Lynn and others what was/is true about the golf club plane and what they teach in one set of insights can be as appropriate in other golf applications. I'm speaking about the "durabilty of truth." Gravity works under the ocean, on the ground, and in outer space albeit at different speeds. Gravity, like the flying wedges, always has to be accounted for.
It's my thread and I reserve the right to be "off the hook" whenever I want to be!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Aim Point for idiots! Ok, having figured out how to turn my back hip in synch with my PP # 3 and having so much power using the Right Forearm Angle of Approach, the question arises as to where to drag or drive that power to? So I'm starting the research on this Forum and watching you tube videos to get an answer I can use.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 345
hitting up is dangerous
Originally Posted by GooseofIron
If I've got it right, Clampett has it about 4 inches in front of the where the ball is.
You *can* do it for drivers, but the Trackman devices are showing that basically you want the aimpoint for a driver before the ball because you want to hit up a little with a driver. Recent article showed that JB Holmes and Tiger had virtually the same swing speed, but Holmes was hitting about 3 degrees up with the driver whereas Tiger was hitting 3 degrees down and that is believed to be why Holmes hits it much further than Tiger.
3JACK
Thom continues -Clearly the Trackman wil show you that high launch/low spin is the recipe for distance. But IMO it's a dangerous swing thought.
If the club is on it's way up, it has passed the low point. If it has passed low point the clubface is closed. If the face is closed, you'll hook it. If you don't want to hook it, you'll have to swing your driver and use vertical hinging, which is a layback only procedure better used with the short game strokes.
The hit up thought, coming from all the launch monitor results, could be the reason a lot of golfers want open face drivers now a days.
I think the AP before the the ball is due to the driver being a longer club and it needs more time to square up. That's why you need to start the release ealier, and that's what an AP before the ball will do.
Maybe one of the pros can explain this much better!
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 12-10-2012 at 02:13 PM.
[quote=innercityteacher;94532]Aim Point for idiots! Ok, having figured out how to turn my back hip in synch with my PP # 3 and having so much power using the Right Forearm Angle of Approach, the question arises as to where to drag or drive that power to? So I'm starting the research on this Forum and watching you tube videos to get an answer I can use.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 10,643
Aiming Point -- A Few Feet Too Far
Originally Posted by exgolfpro
I understand the idea behind the Aim point. I had always done this with my wedges, but didn't know how to verbalize to others how I did it. So, now I am trying to integrate this point thru the rest of the bag. My question is..how far is too far forward? I get pretty good results while using my irons if I drive my hands at a point a good 12-15 feet in front of the ball. The only visual I have seen of the aim point is in Bobby Clampett's book Impact Zone and he shows it being about 4-5 inches in front of the ball. Am I overdoing it?
Ex,
Study the Aiming Point (6-E-2);
The Hands Lane (Photo 9-3-6); and
The Delivery Paths (10-23-0/A).
Once understood, the golfer knows that Thrust can be directed AT the Ball (assuming its Location at the specific Club's Straightaway Point); IN FRONT of the Ball (for the Shorter Clubs); or BEHIND the Ball (the longer Clubs).
Bottom Line: Once the Aiming Point is understood, the player rarely directs Thrust more than 1-2 inches in front of the
Ball, much less 10-15 feet. As far as 'behind' the Ball; that point apparently has been lost.
__________________
Yoda
I declare this post the winner with no hanging chads!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 12-10-2012 at 11:10 PM.
On my last day with Lynn or so, he showed me how to hold a golf ball in my right index finger so my finger looked like a question mark. Not only did that show me how to put my right hand on the club, but it is also my model now for throwing the ball via Aim Point on the plane. Homer taught Lynn and others what was/is true about the golf club plane and what they teach in one set of insights can be as appropriate in other golf applications. I'm speaking about the "durabilty of truth." Gravity works under the ocean, on the ground, and in outer space albeit at different speeds. Gravity, like the flying wedges, always has to be accounted for.
It's my thread and I reserve the right to be "off the hook" whenever I want to be!
ICT
I LOVE your thread!!!
I only post when I have something to say. You and the other guys are usually over my head, but I learn a lot from your posts!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Aim Point for idiots! Ok, having figured out how to turn my back hip in synch with my PP # 3 and having so much power using the Right Forearm Angle of Approach, the question arises as to where to drag or drive that power to? So I'm starting the research on this Forum and watching you tube videos to get an answer I can use.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Thomasville, NC
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by deckhead
AIM POINT 6-E-2.
I took lessons from a man who was NOT a TGM degree holder, but taught out of the book.
I cut the ball all of my life. He had me place a tee where I would normally tee the ball. Then he would put a ball on a tee about 6-8" in front of the tee. He had me aim at the tee in front of me while hitting the ball, all while hitting downoutthrough. The ball flew straight or drew. Is this what 6-E-2 is describing?
100% correct! Some folks confuse aiming point with low point . . . kind of like a bunker shot where you look at the sand and HAVE THE CLUB STRIKE THE SAND AT THAT POINT. Aiming Point as you have seen demonstrated is about directing THRUST . . . not the Destination of the Clubhead. 6-E-2 is one of the best contributions of Mr. Kelley to golf. With the aiming point procedure you can have the Aiming Point be CONSTANT and move the ball to have the same release feel . . . OR you can keep your ball position constant and move the Aiming Point forward, aft, or at the ball.
Mr. Kelley in the 4th edition had a particularly lucid example of Aiming Point being like the free hand drawing of straight lines on a chalk board. You place your chalk on point A, look at point B and draw the line. By looking at the chalk you'd screw the pooch. So with aiming point from the top . . . you are mentally constructing a straight line of thrust from top down and THROUGH the Aiming Point via your #3 Pressure Point . . . . that pressure point is your chalk, the starting point is Top, the straight line is the extension of the Straight Line Delivery Path of your hands (and lag pressure) and the destination is down and through the aiming point which is on your Delivery Line.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
You are nicer than I am and a better golfer and golf teacher!
Originally Posted by KevCarter
I LOVE your thread!!!
I only post when I have something to say. You and the other guys are usually over my head, but I learn a lot from your posts!
Kevin
I have not forgotten Kev. We were talking about a IL/WI/MN summer visit last night but I have to make sure they do not close my school at the end of this year!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
There still is at least one major issue in play: the correct Clubhead Path through Impact (and how to make it happen).
Do you swing to the "right" with the driver and to the "left" with everything else? Must the Plane Line rotate "Closed" with the driver (and its lauded "Upstroke") and "Open" with everything else (and their "Downstroke").
We'll see how it goes . . .
Nice to hear from you Yoda.
Ill take Grip Rotation for extra yards please Alex. Draw shot tendency yes as the ball POSITIONING moves back along the Arc of Approach but It's mitigated by the more upright Plane Angle ... More down , less out associated with shorter sticks and there more upright lie and plane angles .
How bout you personally Yoda.
" Grip or Plane Rotation?" Asked Ed McMahon to the great Carsini.
Linear Mode
