Amazingly, as I put my "Right Forearm on Plane with quiet knees and feet" and used my RFT, I found myself putting all my pressure points behind the club's extension and swiveling to an "Arrow pointing at the ear" without conscious thought.
Cold range balls into the wind on a rope with a driver past the 200 yard marker on the fly (maybe 210) and a nice fish-hook and "bzzzzzz" with irons.
I feel the stretch of the RFT in the front shoulder, stretch the arms and shoulder more fully with the shift of the front hip (my plastic artificial hip), and then I fire my right arm fully with a feel that my left hip is the pivot or sling of the back or right elbow. I finish with 90% of my weight on my front foot.
Driver has a nice deep thunk and irons go "crack!"
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I love reading stuff like this, Patrick. Congratulations.
I'm working on so many different things and all seem to work compared to where I was. Man, we gotta get to a course soon.
I love reading stuff like this, Patrick. Congratulations.
I'm working on so many different things and all seem to work compared to where I was. Man, we gotta get to a course soon.
Thanks Gerry, You are right. I just realized that what I was feeling was my right wrist rotating down the Face of the Plane into the Forward Swivel and up to Both Arms Straight and then to Finish as the hips slide and right arm straightens!
Precision Alignments! So cool! Like Minnesota and Wisconsin, Illinois and Cuscowilla!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Thanks Gerry, You are right. I just realized that what I was feeling was my right wrist rotating down the Face of the Plane into the Forward Swivel and up to Both Arms Straight and then to Finish as the hips slide and right arm straightens!
Precision Alignments! So cool! Like Minnesota and Wisconsin, Illinois and Cuscowilla!
ICT
4 club wind dead into the hitting bays. Very comfortable with RFT. Using it exclusively.
"Dragging the mop" for a Hitting motion to both Arms Straight produces a very steep, high flight that just keeps climbing in the breeze and actually turns over. The RFT to a "frozen" position and held to my side as I Pivot on my left heel straight down ala the Ben Hogan video.
That motion produces a slowly rising, low trajectory, penetrating flight that is very straight.
A third motion starts with RFT and reverses with my right knee moving to about 11 on a clock face driving the right hip and shoulder Throwing Out the right arm and spinning the right hand down the plane. That produce a high draw as well.
The ball position in all cases is never forward of my Mid-Body and feels as if I am striking straight down!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
4 club wind dead into the hitting bays. Very comfortable with RFT. Using it exclusively.
"Dragging the mop" for a Hitting motion to both Arms Straight produces a very steep, high flight that just keeps climbing in the breeze and actually turns over. The RFT to a "frozen" position and held to my side as I Pivot on my left heel straight down ala the Ben Hogan video.
That motion produces a slowly rising, low trajectory, penetrating flight that is very straight.
A third motion starts with RFT and reverses with my right knee moving to about 11 on a clock face driving the right hip and shoulder Throwing Out the right arm and spinning the right hand down the plane. That produce a high draw as well.
The ball position in all cases is never forward of my Mid-Body and feels as if I am striking straight down!
ICT
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 9,606
Drawing The Ball
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
So maybe i can hit a natural draw with the hitting stroke simply by playing it back a bit?
Yoda's Response
Quote:
John
Yes, John, you can produce a 'natural Draw' when Hitting (or 'Manipulated Hands' Swinging) simply by playing the Ball back a bit -- provided you (1) align the Clubface Closed to the Flight Line per 2-J-1 and (2) Rotate your Grip per 7-2. You can do the same thing as a True Swinger by Rotating your Plane Line. Opposite procedures are employed to Fade the Ball.
And 12 Piece observed something I might be doing with my square /open stance and my RFT
Quote:
I've got a copy of an instruction book Lee Buck wrote. It's now out of print. He actually advises closing the clubface at address. I would say based on what he said in his book that he played from a 10-5-B Square-Open stance. He said he intentionally took it back outside the Target Line but then his Downstroke was down the target line. He said by doing this he had the clubface looking at the target longer than anybody in golf.
Also, he played with what looks like to me a 10-2-D grip. Mr. K says with this grip "The palm of the Right Hand moves toward Impact exacly like a paddle-wheel rotating On-Plane - no separate Rolling Motion until after Impact." This is Angled Hinging. Lee described himself as a "blocker" on his Golf Channel thing.
Check out the post that Yoda did on the Impact Bag. Look at the picture of Lee post impact. No rolling there. If you can find any swing sequences on Lee, his Backstroke is definitely to Top and not End. Watch how his Right Forearm Wedge stays solid and how his Right Shoulder is driven down plane. Check out follow through. In 1-L, "The Club starts up-and-in after "Low Point" but the thrust continues Down Plane during Follow-Through." Not many got this better than Lee Buck.
and OB Left said this:
Quote:
In both Hitting and Swinging the Left Hand lays flat on the Inclined Plane at Top. You can Drive Load from there for sure. Drive LOAD, Load the Right Elbow and the non rotated lag pressure point, the index finger. Load it and then sneak it down to its Delayed Release point and them blammo. Right Arm Throw a side armed throwing motion at the Aiming Point. Like skipping stones it'll feel more cross line than Tracing. The Thrusting on the aft you mention does push the Left Hand off the Inclined Plane #3 firing and #2 as well at the same time.
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 03-13-2012 at 01:16 AM.
In my neighborhood last night...from The Daily news (2 teens on ATV die in a hail of bullets
BY MORGAN ZALOT
Daily News Staff Writer)
Updated at 8:15 a.m. Tuesday.
Quote:
A JOYRIDE through North Philadelphia on what police said was a stolen four-wheeler turned deadly for two teenage boys last night, when they were mowed down in a hail of gunfire from an AK-47 assault rifle on a narrow block in the city's Fairhill section.
Cops said the boys. who lived in the neighborhood, were riding an all-terrain vehicle stolen from upstate Pennsylvania on 9th Street near Cambria when automatic-weapon gunfire erupted just before 8 p.m.
The victims were identified this morning as Dexter Bowie, 17, of the 3000 block of North 8th Street, and Johnathan Stokley, 18, of the 3100 block of Darien Street.
Chief Inspector Scott Small said at least 30 shots were fired from the fully automatic weapon, some of which also hit three houses on the block. The ATV also was struck by gunfire, cops said, and was held on the block as part of the crime scene.
Investigators said Bowie was hit several times in the head and leg. Police took him to Temple University Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 8:10 p.m., police said.
Stokley was hit several times throughout his body, cops said.
Medics took him to Temple University Hospital, where he succumbed to his wounds at 8:24 p.m.
Small said no bystanders were injured, and police didn't know what sparked the gunfire.
Police had no suspects in the shooting last night, but one witness was taken in by homicide detectives to be interviewed.
Cops found no surveillance cameras in the area.
Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey arrived about 9 p.m. at the scene, where blood and about 30 shell casings marked where the teens had been gunned down.
The teens were among six people shot in the city as of 11 last night. They were the day's second and third fatal victims of gun violence, and the 68th and 69th murder victims of 2012. By March 11 last year, the city had 75 homicide victims.
We really need a First Tee program but I hear an AK 47 can shoot up to one mile .
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 03-13-2012 at 10:07 AM.
On this one, though, we don't quite see eye-to-eye. Bending the Left Arm does not negate a Left Arm Stroke and cause its Center to be transferred to the Right Elbow. Instead, a bending Left Arm most likely means a Left Arm Stroke that has inadvertantly lost its Maximum Swing Radius. The solution to that problem is the Extensor Action (6-B-1-D) and the precision Left Shoulder-to-Ball Address Routine of 2-J-1.
The Right Elbow Center is just what it says. Namely, you Hit (or Swing per the last paragraph) from the Elbow itself. It is a Stiff-Wristed "Batting" Motion with the Right Arm Driving the Club and with the Elbow serving as the Center of the Motion.
The Minor Basic Stroke that employs this Transferred Center is The Bat (10-3-K). With its Right Arm Drive, Rigid Right Wrist and Angled Club Extension, the usually mandatory Flat Left Wrist is now helpful but not essential. Hence, a tip-off to its use is the ability to hit hard with a slightly Bent Left Wrist at Impact and even to throw the Club in-line with the Right Arm during the Follow-through.
Also, per my post above, using The Bat with loosened Wrists per 7-19 and with Longitudinal Acceleration (the Club being Pulled from the Top lengthwise by the Right Arm) per 7-19-3, will produce the Right Arm Swing with its Center at the Right Elbow.
So then, when I use RFT and lock/stiffen all the elements of my bent right arm, my Pivot is controlling the BAT. Am I batting? (Yes, I can be "batty." No argument).
Is this what Steve Stricker does so well?
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
So then, when I use RFT and lock/stiffen all the elements of my bent right arm, my Pivot is controlling the BAT. Am I batting? (Yes, I can be "batty." No argument).
In the Hitter's Basic Stroke Pattern (12-1-0), three Accumulators -- #1 (Right Elbow), #2 (Left Wrist) and #3 (Left Hand) -- are driven through only two Pressure Points -- #1 (the heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb) and #3 (the meaty part of the right forefinger where it contacts the back of the Clubshaft).
During the Start Down, Hitters use the Pivot in conjunction with the Hands resisting the change of direction at the Top to Drive Load (10-19-A) the entire Primary Lever Assembly (the Left Arm and Club) against Pressure Points #1 and #3. Since the Right Elbow is directly behind and supporting this Assembly (6-B-3-0-1), it is likewise Loaded (6-H-0-E #5). This Loaded Lag Pressure with the full support of the Right Forearm and Elbow is then Delivered Down Plane with absolutely no change whatever in the Pressure.
During the Downstroke and Release, the Right Arm drives the Left Arm through Pressure Point #1 (10-11-0-1). Simultaneously, the Right Arm also drives the Clubshaft through Pressure Point #3 (6-C-2-C). Thus, the active drive of the Uncocking Right Elbow (7-1 and 6-B-3-A) against the #3 Pressure Point (10-11-0-3) both Uncocks the Left Wrist (7-3) and Rolls the Left Hand (6-B-3-0). Because Pressure Point #2 (the last three fingers of the Left Hand) is not used to actuate the Left Wrist, its function is reduced to merely holding the Club.
Swingers, however, utilize three Pressure Points when using a Three Accumulator Stroke. Power Accumulator #4 (the Left Arm) is Loaded by the Pivot against Pressure Point #4 (where the Left Arm contacts the side), and this Drag Loading Action (10-19-C) Loads the Secondary Lever Assembly (the Clubshaft only) via the Left Wrist (6-H-0-F #5) through Pressure Point #2. However, this does not result in an active drive of the Clubshaft because Centrifugal Force alone powers the Club (10-11-0). This 'Passive Clubhead Lag' (10-11-0-2) -- the Clubshaft being Pulled lengthwise directly toward the Plane Line (6-C-2-A) -- sets up the Centrifugal chain reaction (6-M-1) that ultimately pulls the Clubhead into its In Line condition (6-C-0-4) of Full Extension (2-P).
In a Maximum Power Pivot Stroke, the Hitter also will use the Pivot to load Pressure Point #4 (as opposed to a Three Accumulator Stroke wherein the Right Shoulder simply provides motion in the Start Down and then acts as the backstop for the driving Right Arm in Release). In which case, there will be a Four Accumulator Stroke. However, the Swinger is best advised to use a Three Accumulator maximum because any attempt to use the Right Arm -- other than to Trace with the Clubhead Lag Pressure and for Extensor Action and its support (through Pressure Point #1) of the Left Arm's Pull of the Clubshaft (not a Powering of the Clubshaft itself) -- will conflict with the Stroke's Centrifugal drive and actually result in a Power Loss, not a Power Gain.
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 03-13-2012 at 12:54 PM.
For some of the short shots in the video Tom uses a full sweep release where the emphasis is on manually releasing the right elbow at the beginning of the downstroke (for short shots), one could call that a bat type of stroke.
Yes, Tom pulled the club longitudinally with the right forearm in addition to the left forearm, emphasis on the right....if you go to the quiver demonstration in the 40 to 45 minute mark....Tom clearly demonstates the pulling action with the right arm....it's one smooth motion, the club is released by pivot action and the accelerating right arm goes to a long right arm...
What Tom taught was not a hitting action...it's a swinging action with right arm acceleration....two different animals. It's one smooth motion....not two. The right forearm accelerates the club down with an even rhythm....that's why the golfers who understand how works produce smooth golf swings, yet powerful golf swings.
Left Arm Swing is accelerating the Golf Club Longitudinally, i.e., lengthwise in the direction the butt end is pointing, with the Left Arm and usually with Body Momentum Transfer per 2-K.
Right Arm Swing is accelerating the Golf Club Longitudinally with the Right Arm -- always with neglible benefit from Body Momentum Transfer.
Neither can be the other.
Never ever.
So then my question is what exactly is the swing called where you start your Pivot down and manually fire the right arm down?
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Last edited by innercityteacher : 03-13-2012 at 01:20 PM.
So then my question is what exactly is the swing called where you start your Pivot down and manually fire the right arm down?
OK, I'm back in focus!
I feel like I have so much more confidence since seeing Lynn and understanding how important hips and grips are. I feel like the MacDonald drills really emphasize correct motions. With the correct grip, and understanding the Flail and RFT, anything, even Four Accumulator hitting is possible! That is my new goal.
That said, my first conversation with Homer Kelley was by telephone in June1980. There were three people on that call: Homer, Tom Tomasello and me. Two ofthose three are now dead, and listening to the stilled voices on the tape wemade has been a primary driver for my posts over the past six weeks. I feel atremendous responsibility and sense of mission to share with you what I havelearned.
On that call -- which I have transcribed for this post word-for-word -- is whatHomer Kelley emphatically said about the 4-barrel Swing:
"The idea of using a Four Accumulator Swing is extemely difficult, and Iwould say totally inadvisable. It can be done...maybe somebody candevelop a skill...enough skill to handle it...but I wouldn't teach it to anybody...theFour Accumulator Swing."
"I would teach a Four Accumulator Hitting because you can use theRight Shoulder Turn for Acceleration in Hitting, too. But...Hitting andSwinging do not mix. They simply to do not mix."
Three weeks or so ago -- time is rolling on here! -- I said I would post areply to DG's well-reasoned post on how he would transition a 3-Barrel Swingerto a 4-Barrel Swinger. The subject of my pending post is how to transitionto a 4-Barrel Hitter, which I feel, based on my work with Homer andmy understanding of TGM, is more advisable for those who would pursue thepinnacle of the Four Accumulator Stroke. I wrote the first draft of that postalmost immediately but time demands have prevented the final polish. At theconclusion of the Hinge and Magical Right Forearm Classes, I will revisit thisarea.
It is ripe for exploration -- "A ball of fun" said Homer --for all serious students of The Golfing Machine.
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
Linear Mode
