First Move Down for Swingers

[birdie_man]

I've read some things around the web lately on various forums that seem to be saying that one should drive the right shoulder downplane or bring the hands down to the ball or w/e for the first move down...then the pivot just moves out of the way and responds how it needs to.

They use the "baseball pitcher does not think about his pivot and only thinks of his right hand" analogy.

Now...I've tried this...and the results have been crap.

I have found that if I try to drive my shoulder downplane or pull the club downplane with my hands (for the first move down) that I lose my away-from-target spine tilt through impact and my head moves too much forward.

I feel some switting getting in there too and hit low low pulls and shanks and lower shots in general. Not thin but low. I lose my plane (over the top a bit).

So what I'm thinking now is that if I give my attention to that right arm on the way down (instead of pulling with my left side) it seems to put me in danger of hitting when I'm supposed to be swinging.

Swinging is supposed to be a pulling motion after all.

Um...anyone think anything of this? Maybe I interpreted those posts (about starting the downswing with the right shoulder) wrong.

-Paul

[comdpa]

I've read some things around the web lately on various forums that seem to be saying that one should drive the right shoulder downplane or bring the hands down to the ball or w/e for the first move down...then the pivot just moves out of the way and responds how it needs to.

They use the "baseball pitcher does not think about his pivot and only thinks of his right hand" analogy.

Now...I've tried this...and the results have been crap.

I have found that if I try to drive my shoulder downplane or pull the club downplane with my hands (for the first move down) that I lose my away-from-target spine tilt through impact and my head moves too much forward.

I feel some switting getting in there too and hit low low pulls and shanks and lower shots in general. Not thin but low. I lose my plane (over the top a bit).

So what I'm thinking now is that if I give my attention to that right arm on the way down (instead of pulling with my left side) it seems to put me in danger of hitting when I'm supposed to be swinging.

Swinging is supposed to be a pulling motion after all.

Um...anyone think anything of this? Maybe I interpreted those posts (about starting the downswing with the right shoulder) wrong.

-Paul

Per 7-12, last 3 sentences. And 6-M-1 Downstroke sequence. 12-3-0 Section 6 and 7.

[Bagger Lance]

Great references Comdpa.

One of my own swinging snares was forgetting that the swing is from the ground up. Think bottom up rather than top down Birdie. The weight shift (pivot) is your first move.
The feel is letting the hands go along for the ride...a ride that they have defined from the top. That right shoulder can be a bad boy if the hips aren't in the lead.

Bagger

[12 piece bucket]

6-M-1 DOWNSTROKE SEQUENCE The Downstroke sequence of the Stroke Components is dictated essentially by Centrifugal Force; acceleration of a lagging Componet will cease at the instant it achieves an “In-Line” position with its immediately preceding Component.

Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered, and timed as the players understanding and skill permit. But the Club’s Swing Radius (6-B-0) ends at the “non-lagging” Component nearest to the Clubhead. The “Centers” of the Stroke start with the Feet or the employeed Component nearest to the feet in the following order: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation. For maximum Power, the position of must be taken with that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.

Power Accumulators Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 – regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it. Increase Overlap to increase THRUST – decrease Overlap to increase Velocity

[Delaware Golf]

I've read some things around the web lately on various forums that seem to be saying that one should drive the right shoulder downplane or bring the hands down to the ball or w/e for the first move down...then the pivot just moves out of the way and responds how it needs to.

They use the "baseball pitcher does not think about his pivot and only thinks of his right hand" analogy.

Now...I've tried this...and the results have been crap.

I have found that if I try to drive my shoulder downplane or pull the club downplane with my hands (for the first move down) that I lose my away-from-target spine tilt through impact and my head moves too much forward.

I feel some switting getting in there too and hit low low pulls and shanks and lower shots in general. Not thin but low. I lose my plane (over the top a bit).

So what I'm thinking now is that if I give my attention to that right arm on the way down (instead of pulling with my left side) it seems to put me in danger of hitting when I'm supposed to be swinging.

Swinging is supposed to be a pulling motion after all.

Um...anyone think anything of this? Maybe I interpreted those posts (about starting the downswing with the right shoulder) wrong.

-Paul

Just use the MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM per 7-3.

DG

[comdpa]

Great references Comdpa.

One of my own swinging snares was forgetting that the swing is from the ground up. Think bottom up rather than top down Birdie. The weight shift (pivot) is your first move.
The feel is letting the hands go along for the ride...a ride that they have defined from the top. That right shoulder can be a bad boy if the hips aren't in the lead.

Bagger

If the hips don't clear as they should in a mechanically correct stroke, the hands cannot come from the inside out as is necessary for inside-out IMPACT.

Some of my students run with this hip slide and go into hip OVERDRIVE!...and then its back to the drawing board...

I have them to make their normal turn, then grab a railing on their trail side that is waist high. They need only slide 2 or so inches to feel a tug on their left side - slack is eliminated from the swing.

Per 7-14 - Hula Hula flexibility. When that is done right, there will be the proper amount of axis tilt and roundhousing, running out of right arm will not be an issue.

Impact is incidental on the way to a both arms straight follow thru. That is the Golfing Machine...How "difficult" this is....tsk tsk.

[EdZ]

6-M-1 DOWNSTROKE SEQUENCE The Downstroke sequence of the Stroke Components is dictated essentially by Centrifugal Force; acceleration of a lagging Componet will cease at the instant it achieves an “In-Line” position with its immediately preceding Component.

Centers and Accumulators can be sequenced, overlapped, omitted, emphasized, triggered, and timed as the players understanding and skill permit. But the Club’s Swing Radius (6-B-0) ends at the “non-lagging” Component nearest to the Clubhead. The “Centers” of the Stroke start with the Feet or the employeed Component nearest to the feet in the following order: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation. For maximum Power, the position of must be taken with that will allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed the Line-of-Site-to-the-Ball per 6-B-1-C. Then the Accumulators must move very rapidly toward their “In-Line” Position. But none should actually arrive (lose all their Lag and Drag until well after Impact. Also see 6-H-0.

Power Accumulators Release sequence is #4, #1, #2, #3 – regardless of which ones are being employed. Any Accumulator number may overlap or replace its preceding number but cannot precede it. Increase Overlap to increase THRUST – decrease Overlap to increase Velocity

An excellent quote - the description of the 'cracking whip'.

'motion' described - the physics of the 'swinging' force

[phillygolf]

I've read some things around the web lately on various forums that seem to be saying that one should drive the right shoulder downplane or bring the hands down to the ball or w/e for the first move down...then the pivot just moves out of the way and responds how it needs to.

They use the "baseball pitcher does not think about his pivot and only thinks of his right hand" analogy.

Now...I've tried this...and the results have been crap.

I have found that if I try to drive my shoulder downplane or pull the club downplane with my hands (for the first move down) that I lose my away-from-target spine tilt through impact and my head moves too much forward.

I feel some switting getting in there too and hit low low pulls and shanks and lower shots in general. Not thin but low. I lose my plane (over the top a bit).

So what I'm thinking now is that if I give my attention to that right arm on the way down (instead of pulling with my left side) it seems to put me in danger of hitting when I'm supposed to be swinging.

Swinging is supposed to be a pulling motion after all.

Um...anyone think anything of this? Maybe I interpreted those posts (about starting the downswing with the right shoulder) wrong.

-Paul

10-19-C

Initiates the gyroscope action required for swingers. Of course, always should be under hands controlled pivot per 5-0, which occurs with experience and practice.

Thank you Mr Ben Hogan and thank you Mr Homer Kelley.

Patrick

[birdie_man]

Just found this thread again.

I don't think I read all the references last time around....but I just did....

Thanks guys. Appreciate it.

K, so...

-start downswing from bottom to top, instead of top to bottom.....so much for pulling straight down with my right forearm (possibly right arm swinging....+ throwaway).

-downstroke sequence: Knees, Hips, Shoulders, arms, Right Elbow, Left Wristcock and/or Left Hand Rotation.

-10-19-C (Drag Loading) has the perfect Start-Down analogy in it....it gives me a perfect feeling and image for the Start-Down (hopefully perfect mechanics too). "Start the club down as though it were being drawn from a quiver like an arrow- feathered end first."

So great.

Start downswing from bottom to top + pull the arrow out...I like it.

[Mike O]

Make sure you separate what your trying to do- and what needs to happen in the swing- they are two different animals- and each has it's place.