Swing Changes And Equipment

[cometgolfer]

After finally getting a lesson in with an AI last week, I'm now setting out to get some more precision in my game.

Some of my "issues" stem from a right forearm that wasn't on plane at address (mine was too high... the "low hands" syndrome). I have an underplane transition which leads to a lot (too much) of #3 accumulator at release and impact.

The remedy involves better extensor action, a truly "bent and frozen" right wrist, and a more "appropriate" use of accumulators #2 and #3. My swing has the appearance of not being able to un-cock the LW to level at impact so my hands also look "too low" there as well.

The bottom line is that I'm trying to get my swing more on-plane. I currently use Ping S59's in a Red dot (one degree flat and a half-inch over std). The static fit from their website says I should be more like 2 to 3 degrees upright, but I was dynamic fit to the Red (which makes total sense based on my swing). Everything I'm working toward, I believe, should and will result in hands that are "higher" than they are now at impact. My question is - should I adjust the lie angle on my irons to reflect where I'm trying to get to with my swing? If so, is it a "gradual" adjustment?

I'd like to hear what the fitters out there do with a student who is trying to make swing changes that could be affected by their equipment setup.

Thanks,
CG

[neil]

If you are making a -major adjustment -I would say wait .
When you are at a reasonable level of what you think is going to be your swing
GET FITTED!

[mrodock]

My question is - should I adjust the lie angle on my irons to reflect where I'm trying to get to with my swing?

Before any clubfitters chime in I would say ABSOLUTELY! Makes sense to have your clubs AT the point you will be maximally rewarded, thus your clubs will better reinforce the changes. If you need a slight adjustment thereafter, so be it. Ask your AI what he wants your clubs at and go from there I think.

[3Putt]

Sorry Cometgolfer, no answers for you but I'm keenly interested in this thread. I'm in a similar predicament. Last year, I was dynamically fitted 1" long, 2 deg flat, even though I'm small of stature (5'8") and don't believe I have any unusual dimensions (such as long/short arms or legs).

My gut tells me the clubs are too long. But I did see with my own eyes the results of the lie board, impact patterns, ball flight, etc. I'd be interested to hear if the use of long clubs, has some special considerations with respect to TGM.

Thx
3putt

[okie]

Curious to know what kind of margin is advisable to build into the lie angle of your clubs? I posted this in another thread, but my question relates to changing the plane angle from say the turned shoulder plane to the elbow plane for a special purpose. I have learned that the reason that clubs are generally cambered is to allow for more than one plane...Homer taught me that! The thing is when I come into the ball on the elbow plane I strike it towards the heel (slight toe up impact, I suspect) the turned shoulder plane is spot on, anything steeper hits towards the toe. My 7 iron has ball prints on the toe, sweetspot as well as the heel to validate this! To get a more boring flight (a good thing on the amber waving plains) the elbow plane comes in handy etc. So, say I go bee-bopping to my local club fitter and make this statement " Hey there local club fitter guy. I want my lie angle "range" to be between the elbow and turned shoulder plane...make it happen!" Should I take another hit on Bucket's crack pipe, or am I on a reasonable train of thought?

[golfgnome]

Because we learn from results, ballflight will almost always be your determining factor in regards to equipment. With that being said, get fit NOW to where you want to be so that the ball flight will respond positively to your changes.

I have showed this at every one of Lynn's schools and I think everyone got it. You can make a "perfect golf swing" and the ball fly off line because of poor equipment. Your brain will never let you make that swing again because of this poor shot. Eventually you go back to the swing you were making, your teacher has to spend more time with you and you both become frustrated.

I use clubs to change motion in my students swing because it is much easier to learn from ball flight than anything else.

[Yoda]

Because we learn from results, ballflight will almost always be your determining factor in regards to equipment. With that being said, get fit NOW to where you want to be so that the ball flight will respond positively to your changes.

I have showed this at every one of Lynn's schools and I think everyone got it. You can make a "perfect golf swing" and the ball fly off line because of poor equipment. Your brain will never let you make that swing again because of this poor shot. Eventually you go back to the swing you were making, your teacher has to spend more time with you and you both become frustrated.

I use clubs to change motion in my students swing because it is much easier to learn from ball flight than anything else.

Has anyone ever read anything like this before?

Thanks, Jeff!

[neil]

Because we learn from results, ballflight will almost always be your determining factor in regards to equipment. With that being said, get fit NOW to where you want to be so that the ball flight will respond positively to your changes.

I have showed this at every one of Lynn's schools and I think everyone got it. You can make a "perfect golf swing" and the ball fly off line because of poor equipment. Your brain will never let you make that swing again because of this poor shot. Eventually you go back to the swing you were making, your teacher has to spend more time with you and you both become frustrated.

I use clubs to change motion in my students swing because it is much easier to learn from ball flight than anything else.

I totally agree Jeff.
My point is that if someone is coming over the top and is trying to get in -to out -,unless they can make the new move ,they could end up with different specs.

[okie]

No I have never heard such a thing...elsewhere! Is it accurate to say that the tendency is to "fit" a player based on accomodating his current tendencies...good or bad? OK I know I am obsessing on the lie angle deal...but what plane do you fit a player to? To me the lie of your club has more to do with the preselectd plane, correct?

So, does a clubfitter (with adequate golf stroke expertise...a rare gnome it would seem!) say "I think your will get best results if your sweetspot comes into impact on the elbow plane...this is the flattest of the acceptable planes by the way...so we are going to alter your lie angle 2 degrees flat to make that possible. Now remember that we have fit you for a flattish plane, so don't go doing a Scott Hoch improv out there, ya hear!"

I'm gonna buy me a cheap knock off set and go to bending...just not the plane line! 3rd cup of Turkish coffee talking!

PS Congrats to you and Mr. Asbell on the dubya!

[cometgolfer]

Okie,

I see where your coming from on the ability to hit your irons from different planes. In fact in my post I should have said that I'm trying to get more from the elbow plane (and my low boring iron shots) to more of a turned shoulder plane..... thus the move up in my lie angle.

A couple of months ago I had become frustrated with not being able to fix my low hand "problem". My last set of irons (that I played for 3 or 4 years) were a set of Mizuno MP-29's. I took 3 of them to a local fitter and asked him to bend them up 4 to 5 degrees. Being pretty soft they bend easily, and my thought was "I'll find a way to hit these straight" (to golfgnomes point) and maybe that will work me out of the under-plane stuff. These irons had a dime-sized wear pattern just a smidge toward the heel and the fitter looks at me and says "you're SURE you want to bend these up 5 degrees? looks like you hit em pretty good now!"

They did provide a very different feel, but I still didn't have a good enough plan as far as swing changes needed to get me more on plane.

CG