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What to check when analysing swing video
Team,
Can I have your help with this please. I want to avoid gettting paralysis by analysis but I am sure there are some key things to look at that would help one get better faster. Even a bullet point list wld help to begin with. Not trying to take buisness away from a pro or anything, rather looking for things to monitor as it seems to be very easy to fall back to old ways. Also seeking to empower myself. My GSED friend told me I know more than 90% of pros but he also said then you need decide what to do with the information. So I realised I actually dont know what I am actually doing most of the time :( despite being able to hit great shots a lot of the time :) Whats more - I also realised I have no idea what others are doing a lot of the time. This is not my profession ( I work in IT) but it is my passion so I like to know what is the "truth" ie. what do top performers do versus lesser performers. Oops - this is turning into a ramble.... I have been downloading and playing pro swings over and over and I figure why not learn what to look for. I know camera angles make a big difference but i am sure there are lots of other things to look at regardless of camera angle. Lets say we have a video of our swing copied to computer - down the line and face on and we can draw lines etc. Anybody know of any links for such articles online ? Where to draw lines etc, monitor excessive sway ..... Here is a bit of a list I have started but I guess I am maybe reinventing the wheel or doubling up on some items. Fundamentals Alignments Ball position Posture Once swing is in motion Swaying Bobbing Lurching Head movement Swing plane Impact position – alignments What do those of you who have done lots of this look at - i am sure you maybe focus on certain things as a general rule so as to avoid confusing the student etc. Any thought from any of u who are experienced in such matters would be much appreciated. Fire away :) Chris from Australia |
This is a bit long...
I did some research and and study on this topic a while back and wrote the following write up. I discovered several interesting things in the process: a. Camera Setup varied among many that used video analysis (some would stand and hold the camera and point downward,others. well it varried) b. The biggest thing I found that bothered me was that the anaylsis was done from the instructor's baseline or idea/concept of the swing. For example if most would analyze Jim Furyk's swing, well they would change it immediately cause it doesn't fit their idea of a golf swing. Few if any actually did analysis based on what the club did at impact. Even those who relied on Ball Flight (possibly a controversial topic) still had a bias. BOTTOM LINE it was THEIR SWING (THE WAY) not the GOLFERS Swing. Note I think some of the best analysis I have seen is by instructors who at most apply one or two lines or reference points. They seem to be more oriented to the golfer's swing not the way. Analyzing Your Golf Swing with Video/Pictures An advantage golfers have today that did not exist or was rarely available in years past is the use of Video or Sequenced Pictures of the Golf Swing. They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. Full motion video is the best way to capture Your Golf Swing. Ideally having dual camera operating at the same to provide full motion of the golf swing from the 'Face on View' and the 'Down the Line' view with at a minimum of 1/500 frames per second will give you the best opportunity to accurately analyze your swing. For Camera information and set-up click on this link, Video Record Set-up. - - - - - - - - CONTENT OF MISSING LINK - - - - - - - Camera Speeds Obviously the higher the Frames per Second (FPS) the better results you can get for video analysis. Having a camera with an 'adjustable shutter speed'. Most software packages recommend having at least 1/500 per second shutter speed. Positioning of Camera Face-on View - the video camera should be setup as follows: a. Camera is aligned perpendicular at the hands. b. Camera height should be at the hands level. c. Camera must be level. d. Ideally you want to have some immovable object in the background to use as a reference point. Down the Line View - the video camera should be setup as follows: a. Camera is aligned perpendicular the target line with the hands in the center. b. Camera height should be at the hands level. c. Camera must be level. d. Ideally you want to have some immovable object in the background to use as a reference point. ![]() - - - - - - - - END OF LINK CONTENT - - - - - - - In absence of video, single picture taken at various points in 'Your Golf Swing' can assist in analysis of the swing. Note this is far from ideal, but can be effectively used if a sequence of pictures are taken. It is probably best when using single pictures to focus on the address, the top and finish. When analyzing the golf swing, it should be kept in mind that there is only ONE position that is key in defining the golf swing under analysis. Impact Position. The resultant shot is a product of the Impact Position. Getting to the Impact position is the whole purpose of the golf swing. The effectiveness of the swing is often measured first in the resultant shot, regarding a golfer's ability to score well, the measure is how consistent and repeatable the golf swing is. So when analyzing the golf swing it is important not to focus on superficial positions and alignments. It would be ideal if every golfer only had the minimum movements during the golf swing, but reality is that most golfers have movements in their golf swing that are not always ideal. Additional movements, what some may consider out of alignment positions, are not necessarily something to focus on. Determining which movements or positions that result in a faulty shot result or loss of power is the key to successful analysis of the golf swing. It doesn't end with the identification of the faulty move or position, it needs to be traced back to the actual cause. For example if the club is on an incorrect path, a faulty position in the down stroke, just reposition the club will not necessarily correct the fault. The analysis must not only identify the faulty movement or position but it must isolate the actual cause. As in the above example, there are many possible actual causes, ranging from faulty sequence to an incorrect movement at the start of the take away. The key to successful analysis is isolate and identify the cause. The next step then is to translate this information into some useful instruction that compliments the golfer's learning style. This can range from a visual que, a training aid, a detail analysis with the golfer, etc. Some words of warning and cautions need to be given. Merely placing lines on a picture or video screen does NOT ensure you can obtain accurate information. We mush remember first that we are looking at a 3-D picture in 2-D. 1. The position of the camera is critical to start with. 2. Lines drawn or overlays applied will not necessarily be accurate. (For example, a line drawn to extend the golf club shaft outward toward the target line will be skewed with respect to the golf club at times during the golf motion. It is best not to rely on the lines at intermediate points of the swing, at the top, the bottom and mid points are where you get the most accurate extensions and references) 3. The purpose of the lines are to allow you to see and determine what the golf club and golfer are doing during the swing sequence. 4. It the shot result was good, but the picture shows otherwise, DO NOT attempt corrections, adjustments or changes UNTIL you can determine if the golfer is making adjustments post this position or line(s) are not correct for this sequence. What follows first is an abbreviated Analysis Method. Later a detailed analysis method is provided for those who like details, but the abbreviated Analysis Method should answer 99.9% of anyone's needs. Abbreviated Analysis Method - Face on View (FoV) 1. TARGET HIP LINE [light green] - A line (vertical) from the ground up and past the target side hip joint. (this shows amount of forward hip movement.) 2. TRAIL HIP LINE [brown] - A line (vertical) from the ground up and past the trail side hip joint. (this shows amount of rear hip movement.) 3. IMPACT BALL LINE [blue] - A line (vertical) from the Impact point of the golf ball up to the chest (for ball location, reference point hands). 4. HEADLINE [red] - A line (vertical ) from naval upward (this shows your head and upper body movement). ![]() These four lines do make a mess of the picture. But for the initial analysis, they allow for a quick view of the set-up and golfer's position. It is recommended that once the set-up has been reviewed, then removing or shortening of lines may be in order. Always FIRST check the golfers set-up (Grip, Stance, Alignment), Hips, Shoulders and Head, Clubface to Target Line, Hands to Ball and Grip to Clubface Addressing the ball with the golf club can often go un-noticed. An incorrect position will lead to the golfer making adjustments initially to compensate for this error. Refer to Addressing the Ball to ensure this alignment is correct. LINK http://martee.net/tgm.htm#Addressing... with the Club Abbreviated Analysis Method - Down the Line View (DtL) 1. SHAFT PLANE LINE [light green] - A diagonal line covering the clubshaft from the hosel straight up and above head height (starting Plane Angle). Note - some people prefer to use the Sweet Spot Plane Line instead, which will work just as well. 2. SHOULDER PLANE LINE [red]- Another diagonal line from the toe of the club up to the top of the right (trail) shoulder (shoulder plane). 3. SPINE ANGLE LINE [brown]- A line from the back belt line up and to the back of the head (shows spine and body movement) 4. REAR LINE [blue]- A vertical line down the outside of the rear end (this shows whether the pivot is moving parallel to the target line - a swinging pivot motion, or moving cross lateral - a hitting pivot motion). ![]() These four lines do make a mess of the picture. But for the initial analysis, they allow for a quick view of the set-up and golfer's position. It is recommended that once the set-up has been reviewed, then removing or shortening of lines may be in order. These are really the only lines you need to check Impact, Pivot, Plane. Always FIRST check the golfers set-up, Hips, Shoulders, feet and Head, Clubface to Target, Plane Angle and Right Forearm Position. Analysis Notes If the analysis you are doing is of another golfer to either study and mimic or assist in isolating a fault, consider the following: a. Does the golfer's body physically match the body of the model swing subscribe too? b. Does the golfer have more strength and or flexibility? All of this is KEY to being able to analyze and apply the information. If there is a mismatch, then you have three choices: 1. Re-engineer your whole swing to meet the analysis model. This will also include working on your physical body as well. One thing we can't do is get taller or shorter so the plane angle will change for us if we don't match the model. 2. Find a new model that fits the body style and has the swing characteristic that match. 3. Apply the changes and continue to search for why it is you can't achieve the results that your model does. Here are some notes regarding positions and alignments. Not all of these will apply to all golfers so when considering them, consider how the golfer does swing the club, not how you think the club should be swung. 1. Golf Club on Plane - Check throughout the swing to see if the golf club is on plane. On plane is: "Whenever the Clubshaft is parallel to the ground it must also be parallel to the base line of the Inclined Plane which is usually (but not always) the Line of Flight also. Otherwise, the end of the Club that is closest to the ground must be pointing at the base line of the Inclined Plane -- or extension of that line, even if they must be extended to the horizon." 2. Impact Position - Check the position of the left arm and club shaft along with the left wrist. The HANDS should be leading the clubhead. 3. Balance - Check at Address, at the Top, at Impact, at Follow Through and at the Finish. A sure indication of problems would be when the heels don't touch the ground, the soles of the feet have left the ground, the golfer is standing on the outside of the feet. (Note the lifting of the left heel is acceptable and of course the right heel will leave the ground on the follow through. But at all other times it is important not to allow the weight to move to the toes or the backs of the heels). There are many others as instructors find certain features of the golf swing more recognizable and easier for them to relate to a fault.[/url] |
Wow Martee this looks great. We'll get that video thread up and running eventually I hope.
Can you check the web links in yr post or show them sep. For example, "For Camera information and set-up click on this link, Video Record Set-up." is not a hyperlink. Thanks again for your post - very nice of you to share. Chris |
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Great post Martee (as always).
In short, I look at the hands and what they do. The plane they travel from down the line, and lag - sequence - (or lack of it) from face on. And balance, the key indicator of a smooth swinging motion, regardless of hitting or swinging is being used. Best to see in the footwork and finish position. |
hi martee, just read your article on the camera etc, please could you go into more detail with the down the line camera view, with seeing the hip movement swing or hit lateral movement ,are the hips parrell to the plane line etc closed open what do you see???????
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This IMO is what I was looking for when I started down this path on analyzing a golf swing on video. Positions and Alignments. I had this idea that there was a set positions and alignments that would allow me to quickly Identify not just a faulty move in the golf stroke but the actual cause that lead to the faulty move. Often is the case it is easy to identify what appears to be a faulty move or alignment, but in reality it is really a symptom and the true fault lies elsewhere. I am rambling, sorry, back to the question at hand. The four lines I have identified are reference lines to allow you to observe key parts of the golf stroke. As we know in TGM a hitter can have a pre-set hip at address, this would in itself would make the hips closed to the target line, the stance could be open, closed or square. It is really a choice/variation that the golfer has adopted in their own golf stroke. Correct? Valid for hitters and even swingers could use it without creating a need for any compensations. As for the rear line, one could expect that movement observe would be minimum, too much movement could be a loss of balance or a golfer sitting down with the weight on the heels. This tells me little as to the actual problem but does give an indication that there are others places to look to see why the golfer maybe falling away (my words for sitting down backwards with the weight/balance on the heels). I realize this doesn't directly answer the question, but as reference lines they are a place to note what is happening during the golf stroke. Note with a cross line motion at the beginning of the downstroke, you shouldn't see a gap and still see both hips as the golf stroke approaches hip level. Without the cross line motion this is not apparent. Again, alot of the reference lines are markers to note motion, be it good motion or bad motion, BUT the real money maker is what is happening at Impact and working backwards IMO. I hope this kind of answered your question, if not come back at me and wake me up.... :) |
Martee,
Which software do you use? Chris |
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V1, freebee works good. Like JC VIdeo even if the Pro package is a bit pricey. The lower package is good as well and Mark is really willing to deal if we could get this accepted by the group. Won't be TGM per-se since they like Astar but Yoda and his followers could make a sizeable group and we might get something started. Yoda has three instructors at MGC and each use a different package, yet they all appear to be able to do an excellent job in dianosing and demonstrating to their students. (I think they have V1, Cswing and JC Video). |
cheers martee :D I use the v1 home software on my laptop for teaching its ok, only down point you can save swings but when the memory is full you must delete swings ,
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