Shoulders lead the arms

[rprevost]

This discussion has me confused. If I try to move my shoulders first to initiate the downstroke, I have no consistency at all. When I try to swing my arms and let my pivot--which I understand includes the shoulder turn--respond to the swinging of my arms, I hit it consistently straight. This past Friday, I hit a 3-wood 250, which for me is an exceptionally long 3-wood, with the conscious swing thought of keeping my right shoulder back to allow my arms to swing in front of my body. I swng my arms and let my pivot follow, which allows the pivot to deliver my arms and the swinging club to the ball. That is just the opposite of what seems to me described above. Am I doing it wrong?

[efnef]

This discussion has me confused. If I try to move my shoulders first to initiate the downstroke, I have no consistency at all. When I try to swing my arms and let my pivot--which I understand includes the shoulder turn--respond to the swinging of my arms, I hit it consistently straight. This past Friday, I hit a 3-wood 250, which for me is an exceptionally long 3-wood, with the conscious swing thought of keeping my right shoulder back to allow my arms to swing in front of my body. I swng my arms and let my pivot follow, which allows the pivot to deliver my arms and the swinging club to the ball. That is just the opposite of what seems to me described above. Am I doing it wrong?

If the results are consistently good, don't mess with it.

[drewitgolf]

The Accelerating Thrust of Centrifugal Force is a Pulling Lengthwise Motion which results in a Throw Out Action. It can be accomplished by the Left Arm or the Right Arm, both are in a condition to Pull. It is your choice which one you use. Left Arm Swingers (using the Left Shoulder as the Stroke Center) use the Pivot to create a Transfer of Body Momentum. Right Arm Swingers (using the Right Elbow as the Stroke Center) use the Right Tricep to Pull and may not need thet use of Body Momentum.

[rprevost]

The Accelerating Thrust of Centrifugal Force is a Pulling Lengthwise Motion which results in a Throw Out Action. It can be accomplished by the Left Arm or the Right Arm, both are in a condition to Pull. It is your choice which one you use. Left Arm Swingers (using the Left Shoulder as the Stroke Center) use the Pivot to create a Transfer of Body Momentum. Right Arm Swingers (using the Right Elbow as the Stroke Center) use the Right Tricep to Pull and may not need thet use of Body Momentum.

If I am a right-arm swinger, how should I relate my pattern to Yoda's previous comment on the initial shoulder turn, "It is the period of Shoulder Acceleration during the Start Down (8-7), i.e., the Pivot (7-12) transporting the Power Package (6-0) before any independent movement of the Arms occurs (6-K-0). The initial Thrust thus supplied, the Arms then Deliver the Loaded Power Package to the Release Point. This is the period of Hand Acceleration (8-8 )"?

This quotation suggests that one should begin the downstroke with the pivot and then begin swinging the arms as delivery of the power package. Is this to be understood as one pattern among many, or should this be a part of every pattern? The reason this interests me is that I have finally found consistency and power once I figured out how to accomplish the three imperatives by allowing my pivot to respond to the arm swing, rather than having my pivot drive my arm swing.

[Yoda]

This quotation suggests that one should begin the downstroke with the pivot and then begin swinging the arms as delivery of the power package. Is this to be understood as one pattern among many, or should this be a part of every pattern? The reason this interests me is that I have finally found consistency and power once I figured out how to accomplish the three imperatives by allowing my pivot to respond to the arm swing, rather than having my pivot drive my arm swing.

My friend and student, rprevost, is being very 'politically correct' here.

He visited me in The Swamp this past summer, and I taught him to 'keep the right shoulder back' (from the Top) and to 'swing the Arms' down and through the ball. He learned a true, Hand-Controlled Pivot and left striping shot-after-shot with many yards added to every drive. Now, here I am stating that the Pivot -- the Body's Rotation -- delivers the loaded Power Package from Start Down into Release. Is there an inconsistency here?

You bet!

And that inconsistency is between 'Feel' and 'Real'.

The BODY is Zone 1 -- PIVOT. It sets up the circular, centrifugal Motion of the Stroke.

The ARMS are Zone 2 -- POWER. Along with the Club, they supply the Force of the Stroke.

In the Start Down and Downstroke, the PIVOT leads and the Arms follow. Not the other way around. Otherwise, the Right Arm must begin its straightening immediately from the Top, and this can only result in Throwaway.

So...

The Pivot consists of the Feet, Knees, Hips and Shoulders. Lower Body and Upper Body. The Lower Body leads and the Upper Body lags.

Pivot Lag (6-C-0; 6-M-1).

When the Right Shoulder stays BACK -- ON PLANE -- as it should in Start Down (7-13), it feels as if it is doing NOTHING. But that is NOT the case! In fact, the Body is moving first -- from the Feet up -- and is actively transferring the Pivot Motion to the Arms and Hands. But that transference is not with a Right Shoulder returning to its Off Plane Address Position (and thus forcing the Hands to follow its ignorant lead). Instead, the Right Shoulder is Turning Down Plane and returning all Pivot and Power Package Components to their pre-selected Impact position. Thus, the Power Package is Delivered Down Plane to Release by the last and farthest moving Component of the Pivot, i.e., the Turning Right Shoulder.

The Arms and Hands feel as though it was their idea all the time.

Which, of course, it was.

[rprevost]

Yoda, Thanks for the explanation! And thanks again for this summer. Best money I have ever spent on instruction. I have never hit the ball so consistently straight and long as I have since my lesson in August. I have finally come to a point in my golf game, something I have sought for years, where I have enough confidence off the tee to begin to focus on my short game. And, boy, does that need work!

[Yoda]

Yoda, Thanks for the explanation! And thanks again for this summer. Best money I have ever spent on instruction. I have never hit the ball so consistently straight and long as I have since my lesson in August. I have finally come to a point in my golf game, something I have sought for years, where I have enough confidence off the tee to begin to focus on my short game. And, boy, does that need work!

Thank you, rprevost, for your boost -- -- and, most of all, for your ardent attention and application.

Now, c'mon back, and let's get to work on that short game!

[YodasLuke]

My friend and student, rprevost, is being very 'politically correct' here.

He visited me in The Swamp this past summer, and I taught him to 'keep the right shoulder back' (from the Top) and to 'swing the Arms' down and through the ball. He learned a true, Hand-Controlled Pivot and left striping shot-after-shot with many yards added to every drive. Now, here I am stating that the Pivot -- the Body's Rotation -- delivers the loaded Power Package from Start Down into Release. Is there an inconsistency here?

You bet!

And that inconsistency is between 'Feel' and 'Real'.

The BODY is Zone 1 -- PIVOT. It sets up the circular, centrifugal Motion of the Stroke.

The ARMS are Zone 2 -- POWER. Along with the Club, they supply the Force of the Stroke.

In the Start Down and Downstroke, the PIVOT leads and the Arms follow. Not the other way around. Otherwise, the Right Arm must begin its straightening immediately from the Top, and this can only result in Throwaway.

So...

The Pivot consists of the Feet, Knees, Hips and Shoulders. Lower Body and Upper Body. The Lower Body leads and the Upper Body lags.

Pivot Lag (6-C-0; 6-M-1).

When the Right Shoulder stays BACK -- ON PLANE -- as it should in Start Down (7-13), it feels as if it is doing NOTHING. But that is NOT the case! In fact, the Body is moving first -- from the Feet up -- and is actively transferring the Pivot Motion to the Arms and Hands. But that transference is not with a Right Shoulder returning to its Off Plane Address Position (and thus forcing the Hands to follow its ignorant lead). Instead, the Right Shoulder is Turning Down Plane and returning all Pivot and Power Package Components to their pre-selected Impact position. Thus, the Power Package is Delivered Down Plane to Release by the last and farthest moving Component of the Pivot, i.e., the Turning Right Shoulder.

The Arms and Hands feel as though it was their idea all the time.

Which, of course, it was.

ATTA BOY!!!!!!

[Delaware Golf]

This discussion has me confused. If I try to move my shoulders first to initiate the downstroke, I have no consistency at all. When I try to swing my arms and let my pivot--which I understand includes the shoulder turn--respond to the swinging of my arms, I hit it consistently straight. This past Friday, I hit a 3-wood 250, which for me is an exceptionally long 3-wood, with the conscious swing thought of keeping my right shoulder back to allow my arms to swing in front of my body. I swng my arms and let my pivot follow, which allows the pivot to deliver my arms and the swinging club to the ball. That is just the opposite of what seems to me described above. Am I doing it wrong?

How can a 250 yard 3 wood be wrong. How about overly right As they say, BEEN THERE DONE THAT!!!!

DG