Clubshaft orbit through the impact zone

[YodasLuke]

It is my understanding that the clubshaft should always remain on-plane when it is swinging through the impact zone (which I will loosely describe as being between the third parallel and fourth parallel) and I am under the impression that this rule applies equally to swingers versus hitters.

The orbit that the clubhead will transcribe during its passage through the impact zone will be circular, and the size of the circular orbit must be related to the angle of the inclined plane - being smaller for a shallower inclined plane (eg. elbow plane), and larger for a steeper inclined plane (turned shoulder plane). The hands will also move inside more quickly if the circular orbit is smaller - eg. Hogan's swing where his clubshaft is slightly below the elbow plane (closer to the hand plane) during its passage through the impact zone - and that it is not dependent on whether a golfer is a swinger or a hitter.

Do you agree, or disagree?

Jeff.

I have to disagree. I would say it almost exactly opposite. The Clubshaft should never remain on-plane when it is swinging through Impact. If the Clubshaft stayed on Plane, it would result in a shank. The club has a CG or CM, which is an imaginary line that extends from Sweet Spot through the #3 pressure point.
“2-F…
Regardless of where the Clubshaft and Clubhead are joined together, it always feels as if they are joined at the Sweet Spot – the longitudinal center of gravity, the line of the pull of Centrifugal Force. So there is a “Clubshaft” Plane and a “Sweet Spot,” or “Swing”, Plane. But herein, unless otherwise noted, “Plane Angle” and “Plane Line” always refer to the Center of Gravity application. Study 2-N. Except during Impact, the Clubshaft can travel on, or to- and – from, either Plane because the Clubshaft rotation must be around the Sweet Spot – not vice versa. So Clubhead “Feel” is Clubhead Lag Pressure (6-C) and is a Golfing Imperative. (2-0). If Lag Pressure is lost the Hands tend to start the hosel (instead of the Sweet Spot) toward Impact – that mysterious “Shank.” When in doubt, “Turn” the Clubface so both the Clubshaft and Sweet Spot will be on the same plane at Start Down. Both Planes always pass through the Lag Pressure Point. Study 6-C-2-A.”

[Jeff]

YodasLuke

I think that the difference between the clubshaft line and the imaginary straight line between PP#3 and the sweetspot is comparatively very small, and I am happy to reword my question to fit your requirement "that the sweetspot plane should be constant through the impact zone". The only point that I am attempting to make is that a golfer should continuously trace a SPL through the impact zone - and that includes the post-impact period - and that the resultant hand arc shape will depend on the angle of the inclined plane.

Jeff.

[Toolish]

The hand arc will also depend on release type, no?

[Jeff]

Toolish

It is not clear to me why you would think that the hand arc path near impact and post-impact would depend on release type.

My main interest, in posing this question, is whether the hand arc post-impact is relatively "fixed" for a good golfer who stays on-plane - because his hands have to move along an overall arc that depends on the angle of his selected inclined plane through the impact zone and the "fact" that he needs to continuously trace a SPL while his hands move through the impact zone.

Jeff.

[YodasLuke]

YodasLuke

I think that the difference between the clubshaft line and the imaginary straight line between PP#3 and the sweetspot is comparatively very small, and I am happy to reword my question to fit your requirement "that the sweetspot plane should be constant through the impact zone".

I know the difference seems small, but the difference between a shank and perfection could be millimeters. So, I appreciate the rewording. I'm sure you understand that small differences can lead to a future reader's misunderstanding, when using words like "always".

The only point that I am attempting to make is that a golfer should continuously trace a SPL through the impact zone...
Jeff.

I agree.

[Jeff]

Yodas Luke

I agree with you - being exact is important. I appreciate your "corrective" comments. That's what's so nice about LBG-website's different forums - many forum members think deeply about the golf swing in an attempt to understand it "correctly" and understanding it "correctly" requires paying strict attention to all the complex details.

It would have been much better if I used the word "hand" instead of "clubshaft" in my title, because I was really interesting in addressing the issue of movement of the hands post-impact.

Jeff.

[golfguru]

ISG readers just got sick of the "he said you said" where it was not appropriate to the majority of those reading in that forum. So Jeff was asked nicely to take his ball elsewhere. He did not, so now he is indeed barred. Sadly the cheers were loud.

[pistol]

ISG readers just got sick of the "he said you said" where it was not appropriate to the majority of those reading in that forum. So Jeff was asked nicely to take his ball elsewhere. He did not, so now he is indeed barred. Sadly the cheers were loud.

The cheers were only from the sheep following the drivel written by the cowboy with zero 2nd tilt claiming he got Hogan's move...Seriously Jeff stuff is worth the read

[chbkk]

Jeff, keep on going.....
There are clubshaft, center of mass for the club-COM and sweetspot. Under centrifugal acceleration, from what I gather so far, I think the grip-end of the clubshaft points to the COM and the line linking them lies in a plane. Shouldn't this be the optimal condition ... least swing effort? I also believe now that at impact, the sweetspot on the clubhead lies in front of the COM. Is it on the same orbit as the COM? Should it be in the same orbit in a well-designed golf club?

[YodasLuke]

from what I gather so far, I think the grip-end of the clubshaft points to the COM and the line linking them lies in a plane. Shouldn't this be the optimal condition ... least swing effort?

I added the red, but to be more specific, I would say "the CG runs through the #3 Pressure Point."