Hinge Pin Location

The Golfing Machine - Basic

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  #1  
Old 02-13-2013, 07:33 PM
dkerby dkerby is offline
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Observing
Meditation, I understand, the objects in the mirror
are closer that they are. Donn
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:10 PM
MizunoJoe MizunoJoe is offline
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Originally Posted by dkerby View Post
Meditation, I understand... Donn
I do not, could you please tranlate for me?
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  #3  
Old 02-14-2013, 06:48 PM
Meditation Meditation is offline
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Originally Posted by dkerby View Post
Meditation, I understand, the objects in the mirror
are closer that they are. Donn
Are you feeling okay?
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:31 PM
dkerby dkerby is offline
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Feeing Fine
Mediation, I am doing fine but will probably
get over it. Thanks for your email. Donn
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  #5  
Old 02-16-2013, 06:11 PM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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About the left hand but not by the left hand
IMO , in regard to the human golfer as opposed to the model or machine of 1-L , rolling the entire Primary Lever (left arm and club) with a Flat Left Wrist places the Hinge Pin at the connection point between left arm and body..... the left shoulder. The hinge pin is at the end of the lever , the end of the radius. If the lever breaks in half , the hinge loses control of the clubface .

Also, while the left hand (as clubface) is moved in a manner so it remains in a perpendicular alignment to one of the three basic planes (vertical, horizontal or somewhere in between aka angled) it is not moved by the left hand. Its a left hand alignment , but its not created, motivated , powered by the left hand . Something a lot of guys get wrong when attempting , manipulating various hinge actions.

Talking full shots here. When putting you could place the hinge pin at the hands (Arnie style, Zone 3 only putting) or at the Pivot Centre (zone 1 only putting) ...... or misguidedly or more likely out of ignorance , in some combination of Zones , 1,2 and 3 (Michelle Wie's putting used to look zone 1 and 3 ish to my eye, pivot stroke with a breaking left hand). But for full shots with a straight left arm through the ball , the hinge pin is in the left shoulder, given a flat left wrist. If the left wrist breaks , the club face goes with it.

Speaking of old school Zone 3 only putting ....didnt some of those guys anchor their hands? Hmmmm...... need our rules official Kev Carter to come in and make a ruling.

Last edited by O.B.Left : 02-16-2013 at 06:14 PM.
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:08 PM
dkerby dkerby is offline
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Hello 0.B. Thanks for you insight. On the putting side
I seem to remember V.J. talking about the same thing.
For long shots, my concern has been the hinge (using a
hinge device, as suggested by Yoda) rotating around with
the left shoulder instead of around the hinge pin. If I
try to maintain the hinge on the left shoulder, this appears
to be what is happening. When Yoda demonstrates, his wooden
hinge device, he does not move the whole device around, outward, on the back swing. The device stays in the same spot and the club portion rotates around the hinge pin. I have been trying to use
the hinge so that I can get exact tracing and a single action
wrist action on the back stroke. I would certainly appreciate
your thoughts. Donn
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:16 PM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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Hey Donn. I know you know all this stuff but for the benefit of those who havent had a lesson with lynn....

The machine of 1-L is a model . A stripped down , simplified for illustrative purposes model that reveals all of the 1-Ls, the basic geometry if you will and the Hinge Actions. Its brilliant but it is simplified when compared to the human body. The machine does not have shoulders , the hinge pin at the end of the primary lever, the centre of the radius, is fixed at the post (spine). The human body is obviously more complex . It has multiple levers , multiple centres, some of which are , often , in motion. That is to say the left shoulder, unless its zeroed moves.

Now that said you could employ a procedure which is similar to the machines. A procedure where (normally for short but exacting shots) you zeroed out the pivot (the left shoulder) and moved the primary lever about a fixed centre . A Pull Minor Basic Stroke say. Great procedure. Simple geometrically , mechanically. But for longer , power shots the left shoulder must move . Aka pivot strokes.

A lot of guys get Hands to Pivot wrong . Its very easy to do. Hands to pivot does not mean that the hands move before the pivot does for instance. Nor does it mean that the pivot is zeroed in Startup. Ideally the body and the arms move in a co-ordinated but independent manner. The legs and arms move in a different direction than the body turns! This is why Lynn doesnt like the hanky under the arm pit drill. It ties the arms to the pivot and restricts independent motion. Lynn teaches a ground/up startup followed by a ground / up start down. Something he told me Hogan described in Power Golf if not in 5 lessons. One reason our host has a preference for Power Golf I believe.

Lynn teaches a feet , knees, hips, shoulders , arms , hands , club startup. Sort of like dancing or walking to be more precise. He teaches lag and drag in startup (both from adjusted and from impact fix interestingly, who knew?) He loves the photos of Sneads cleared right hip, Nelson's lagging clubhead takeaway. Hogan of course oozes ground / up , lag and drag.... in both directions . Back and then through.

To pull this off the pivot must not be killed in startup. The hips are not held still despite how common an intention this may be , currently. The pivot turns and the arms go ...up on the backstroke. See Divergent vectors 2-N-1.. the clubheads orbit is the product of two divergent forces . One outward , one downward (on the downswing but imagine your swinging the club up when thinking about the backswing) The forces balance each other out. The forces of the independent body and arm motion balance out with the clubheads path , orbit resulting. The body's and the arm's motion is therefore said to be "independent but co-ordinated."

So hard to describe in words but you should experience its feel when introduced into your swing! See also McDonald exercises # 5, 10 and 11. This IMO is one reason why Lynn loves those exercises. One exercise is worth a thousand words.

The pivot can (if you so choose ) move the club for its first few inches or so in Startup . I do this. From adjusted . For me it feels like my right hip initiates the whole sequence. As if the right hip powers the clubs first few inches and powers my "startup swivel" . The body (zone 1) provides the initial MOMENTUM which gets picked up and added to in a chain reaction that ripples through all the zones. Its a swing away with a gradually building momentum as the arms and hands (zones 2 and 3) sense and then add to this initial motion. But with different directions or vectors to motion (of zones 1 and 2) . There used to be a video here where John Riegger illustrated his preferred startup from fix , how his pivot turns from a Fix position in Startup and his club goes back a few feet with it. I cant seem to find it any more but it was really interesting. Very McDonald drill #5 to my eye anyways.

Ive got a home made video where Lynn discusses this startup. Let me see if he'll let me put it up on this board. Its not material that is very well known or understood. It takes a lot of words to explain and even then its easily dismissed or over looked. It is however the single most important thing that Lynn has given to my game. What is it? Its ground up , lag and drag in both directions with independent body and arm/leg motion. With an early swing away momentum powering the "startup swivel". Its "motion! " . Simple , natural motion . Alignments (Homer) in motion ( as taught by Blake, McDonald , Melhourne and Homer 12-5 for instance). Homers love affair with Lag and Drag takes on new meaning when, if you are able to introduce it very early in the swing , in Startup. Well IMO anyways.

The startup is not an arm thing alone or a body thing alone. Its a co-ordinated bit of both , each doing its own thing, going its own way. While the #3 pp traces. The pivot moves about its centre , a point between the shoulders the Primary Lever (the left arm and club) moves about its centre the Left Shoulder.




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P.S. Exercise #10 and 11 are drills , backswing drills which show the pivots (Zone 1's) contribution to the clubheads orbit on the backswing . It is not suggesting that the clubheads orbit on the backswing is solely a product of a turning pivot. All the zones get involved early ..... Lynn , my video seems to suggest , personally has zone 1 and 2 doing their own things immediately in startup. I have the body going before the arms ... To each his own.

Last edited by O.B.Left : 02-19-2013 at 12:32 PM. Reason: clarity , stupidity and then an attempt at clarity again.
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  #8  
Old 02-18-2013, 08:23 PM
dkerby dkerby is offline
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McDonald Drills
Excellent post O.B. Sure helps my understanding of the
Drills. Sure hope that you can get your video on the Website.
Yoda understands something special about the movements.
I suspect that the reason is, the more centered pivot, but
not sure. With the drills, I see the right hip going more
back than around, kind of like the right hip set out of the
way. With this, I can still see a delayed hip turn, rather
than Standard hip turn. Right forearm take away in a sense.
Like you, most likely, I am used to Golf Machine terms and
will need to adjust to added language. Maybe as time progresses
more Drill instruction will relate to Golfing Machine terms,
but then, I guess that terms will be a problem for the
general golfer. The drills sure work for me,and others that I see,
but I am not quite sure why. In time the fog will lift.
Thanks, Donn
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