Got Rhythm?

[BerntR]

Actually, Centrifugal Force -- more precisely, the Centripetal Force that produces it -- is the essence of Rhythm.

Yes I basically agree,

But you gotta see this from the clubhead's point of view also

As soon as the golfer has given the clubhead some serious speed the clubhead starts to give the golfer a really hard time. It will do everything it can to pull the hands out of the swing plane and also try to stup the hands from moving forward until the clubhead has taken the lead and pulls the hands through. If the clubhead succeeds in it's efforts the whole golf stroke will collapses in a giant flip.

All this is due to CF and CP. When the golfers only uses CP it is basically responding to the clubhead CF. The golfer is then swinging the club and not the hands. And the lag and the swing plane is ruined by the release.

The golfer need to enforce the hand path. It needs to override the slowing down - almost reversal - effect that the clubhead CF imposes on the hands. The golfer also needs to add some extra force downward (and inward) to prevent the clubhead from pulling the hands out of the swing plane. Since the left shoulder (the hinge pin) is above the inclined plane, the clubhead will seek to establish a new handpath on a plane that intersects the clubhead and the Left Shoulder.

The Right Shoulder will be over the swing plane too, so pushing with the right tricep (drive loading or extencior action) will contribute to driving the hands forward and prevent them from flying out of the plane.

Swinging the clubhead by CP only is certainly the worst alternative. Ignoring the clubhead and swinging the hands is the second best alternative. The good golfer anticipates how clubhead CF can destroy the geometry and enforces the hand path.

The clubhead doesn't want to just be a clubhead. It wants to take over the show. It wants to swing the golfer. Clubheads have feelings too. No they don't. But when they start carry mass-velocity and still is in an out of line condition, they take on a will on their own. The golfer need to apply a healthy quantity of linear force to sustain the lag pressure through impact. I don't think many of the slicer's were made aware of that when they started to play golf.

[Yoda]

All this is due to CF and CP. When the golfers only uses CP it is basically responding to the clubhead CF.

In fact, it is the other way around. Without centripetal force (CP), there can be no centrifugal force (CF).



In my previous 'whirling ball' example, the ball is experiencing centripetal acceleration toward the center of the rotating motion. The string supplies this inward pull. Newton's Third Law (equal and opposite reaction) causes the ball to pull on the string. But . . .

There is no physical force (such as another string) pulling outward on the ball, despite the observed phenomenon (outward pull) we call centrifugal force. The ball's acceleration is due solely to the existence of the centripetal force (the string). Hence, the ignominious distinction applied to centrifugal force: a "fictitious" or "pseudo" force.

Homer Kelley knew this, of course, and therefore defined Centrifugal Force in The Glossary as it should be understood and used by golfers:

Mechanical -- The resistance of the Inertia in an orbiting object to change in direction.

Golf -- The effort of the Swinging Clubhead to pull the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) into a straight line.

So, don't be buffaloed by those who argue that TGM is "junk science" because centrifugal force "doesn't exist". It exists all right, just not in the way it is commonly perceived. My suggestion is to use this "fictitious" force the way Homer intended:

Turn your 9-ounce Clubhead into a wrecking ball!

[BerntR]

You say Yin and I say Yang - or was it the other way around

Golf -- The effort of the Swinging Clubhead to pull the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) into a straight line.

That's a very clever definition. One of my favourites. Makes those who criticise TGM for refering to CF easy targets.

I don't know whether my point went through, but my point was that we don't want the Left Arm and Club to be pulled into a straight line. We want it to be pulled, We want it to straighten. But not all the way. And perhaps not with the rhythm that throwout will impose if you just let it rip without a power package structure that keeps it under control. Cause the inclined plane would also shift upwards if we let it happen and right afterwards the straightening we would have a bent left wrist.

We do want to sustain the line of compression and we want to sustain the inclined plane, don't we?

[Daryl]

...So, don't be buffaloed by those who argue that TGM is "junk science" because centrifugal force doesn't exist. It exists all right, just not in the way it is commonly perceived. My suggestion is to use this "fictitious" force the way Homer intended you to:

Turn your 9-ounce Clubhead into a wrecking ball!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_centrifugal_force

[Yoda]

We do want to sustain the line of compression and we want to sustain the inclined plane, don't we?

In the conversation we're having now, Bernt, I first want to make sure we have our principles right. It's important we understand the underlying laws our procedures must avoid, harness, or overpower (2-L). It's also important that we "get it right" as we present TGM to others.

TGM has been under attack since Homer Kelley published the first edition in 1969. In the 41 years since, most assaults were bred of a distrust in its scientific approach to the game. Lately, a handful of detractors say it's not scientific enough. And yet they still quote from it.

Go figure.

Meanwhile, BG shot 64 yesterday in the final round of The Sony. He averaged 274 yards off the tee and averaged 100 percent Driving Accuracy. (I like 100 percent averages: they're easy to figure. ) It was the low round of the day, and trust me, he ain't givin' a dime back.

[BerntR]

Yoda,

I believe the point I was trying to make is in the book. You refer to 2-L so I get the impression that you believe I'm talking about steering. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I don't see my line of reasoning here as an attack on TGM but if that's how it appears I'll step back from the discussion.

PS: Congrats on your student.

[Daryl]

Yoda,

I believe the point I was trying to make is in the book. You refer to 2-L so I get the impression that you believe I'm talking about steering. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I don't see my line of reasoning here as an attack on TGM but if that's how it appears I'll step back from the discussion.

PS: Congrats on your student.

It's not my place to say, but it sounds like "mentoring", not "criticism".

[BerntR]

In that case, I'm all ears.

[Yoda]

Yoda,

I don't see my line of reasoning here as an attack on TGM but if that's how it appears I'll step back from the discussion.

I wasn't referring to you, Bernt.

It's one thing to seek a deeper understanding of TGM and even to question its core principles. I welcome questions of all kinds and have almost 9,000 posts over the past seven years to prove it. Whatever conclusions one draws from those earnest pursuits are fine with me. That has been your approach, and I respect it.

But, it's quite another to insult Homer Kelley and deride his monumental work as "junk science", all the while proclaiming yourself to be the "greatest" golf instructor of our time and of all time. Particularly when the work served well as you awaited enlightened nirvana. As did the helping hands of the many whose knowledge you sought along the way and who now have been discarded as so much bilge water in your own personal destroyer. That is happening now in another quarter, and quite frankly, it stinks.

"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is
To have a thankless child!"

-- Shakespeare / King Lear

Meanwhile, we best serve ourselves and others by getting our facts right -- those in the book and those in its underlying science. I noticed in your post that you had your "centrifugals" and "centripetals" mixed up. That's why I gave you the information you needed to straighten them out.

And now . . .

Torpedo hatch secured. Left full rudder.

All ahead full.

[KevCarter]

Meanwhile, we best serve ourselves and others by getting our facts right -- those in the book and those in its underlying science.

And now . . .

Torpedo hatch secured. Left full rudder.

All ahead full.

Here Here!

The world of TGM is better off without some folks. Now we can do exactly that,

"Torpedo hatch secured. Left full rudder. All ahead full."

Starting January 24th, OUR LBG REVOLUTION begins at 9:20 AM during the PGA Teaching Summit.

Go get em YODA!

Kevin