Ben Hogan's Magical Device

[EdZ]

Ola Ed,

Swingers Non-Automatic Simultaneous Release with 10-2-A & 10-18-B and can be used with circle Path Delivery.

I don't consider it equal to TGM Automatic Sequenced Release because neither version uses the #3 Accumulator. But it doesn't take 50 years to learn either. The Automatic version, for use with a Straight Line Delivery Path - Hip Action Triggers the Throw-Out; Uncock and Roll Simultaneously.

In Hogans situation, he released so early that he didn't slam the Shaft into a Primary Lever and Hinge for TGM Throwaway prevention. If he did, then his left arm would have moved away from his chest.

I follow you on the non-auto release, but circle delivery? At least in my testing, I found it much easier to have a true straight line delivery from top.

Hogan released early? perhaps sweep, but early?

I think the sweep was a 'rebound' from the snap loading.

Perhaps worth a new thread....

[O.B.Left]

Somebody tell the guys at the Lab to stay open late............we got another one of D's posts coming in.

10-4, copy that, code D.

[Daryl]

Somebody tell the guys at the Lab to stay open late............we got another one of D's posts coming in.

10-4, copy that, code D.

Hmm...

I agree with Ed about everything he said.

Ed,

My statement that 10-2-A & 10-18-B with Circle path was just to say that it's compatible. I didn't mean to imply that it's recommended.

Hogans 10-2-A & 10-18-B released earlier than a "Snap Release". Elbow Plane.

Hogan didn't allow his upper left arm to move away from his chest. His Pivot compensated by Locating his Right Elbow further forward on-plane for Release and Impact but not Follow-through. Hence, the slight amount of Throw-Away we often observe.

We'll never know if Hogan treated the Left Arm and Clubshaft as a Primary Lever and the Left Shoulder as a Hinge Pin. But it seems, after watching about every video of him that I could find, that he used his Head as the Center of which everything Rotated. ??

[O.B.Left]

Hmm...

I agree with Ed about everything he said.

Ed,

My statement that 10-2-A & 10-18-B with Circle path was just to say that it's compatible. I didn't mean to imply that it's recommended.

Hogans 10-2-A & 10-18-B released earlier than a "Snap Release". Elbow Plane.

Hogan didn't allow his upper left arm to move away from his chest. His Pivot compensated by Locating his Right Elbow further forward on-plane for Release and Impact but not Follow-through. Hence, the slight amount of Throw-Away we often observe.

We'll never know if Hogan treated the Left Arm and Clubshaft as a Primary Lever and the Left Shoulder as a Hinge Pin. But it seems, after watching about every video of him that I could find, that he used his Head as the Center of which everything Rotated. ??

I'm just pulling your check rein D.

But by way of an apology and If you'll allow this Canuck to paraphrase your favourite son. "Perhaps I didnt calibrate my words quite as well as I could have. How about I crack another Molson while you get on with the teachable moment".

So Hogan:
-wasnt a true swinger?
-was "swinging left"? A manipulation of the entire clubs orbit to the inside. I read somewhere that Hogan was always trying to get his buddy Jackie Burke to keep his left arm on his chest longer through the ball. Remember the Ed Sullivan drill where Hogan wants you to attach your elbows to your side.
-triggered his release early? A manipulation of the release point. Any idea what type of throw he employed?
-was actively Hinging. A manipulation of the clubface.


Why did Homer say the 10-18-B was restricted to true Centrifugal Force swings. I get that it is Throwaway prevention in that it is the opposite horizontal wrist motion, but I dont get why you couldnt do it and apply a conscious hinge action, clubface manipulation. Maybe I dont fully understand what constitutes a true swing, I think it to be a CF induced Throwout with an unbridled Horizontal Hinge resulting. I dunno.

[O.B.Left]

I believe the magical device is what we refer to here as the Power Package (chapter 6 in TGM) and corresponds with what Ken Venturi said Hogan told him his secret was.

I didnt realize Venturi ever revealed the secret? What did he say?

Thanks

[Daryl]

I'm just pulling your check rein D.

But by way of an apology and If you'll allow this Canuck to paraphrase your favourite son. "Perhaps I didnt calibrate my words quite as well as I could have. How about I crack another Molson while you get on with the teachable moment".

No apology needed. I'm Vapid. Let's have a beer anyway.

So Hogan:
-wasnt a true swinger?
-was "swinging left"? A manipulation of the entire clubs orbit to the inside. I read somewhere that Hogan was always trying to get his buddy Jackie Burke to keep his left arm on his chest longer through the ball. Remember the Ed Sullivan drill where Hogan wants you to attach your elbows to your side.

Ya know; if we take Hogan seriously about what he said and did on the Ed Sullivan Show, then I don't understand how anyone could confuse him with a Hitter. Or, at least a Hitter as defined by TGM. There are some who have "re-defined" Hitter to mean anyone who "fires" through Release and Impact; whatever the heck that's supposed to mean. It can mean anything.

-triggered his release early? A manipulation of the release point. Any idea what type of throw he employed?
-was actively Hinging. A manipulation of the clubface.

I don't know enough to know for sure.

Why did Homer say the 10-18-B was restricted to true Centrifugal Force swings. I get that it is Throwaway prevention in that it is the opposite horizontal wrist motion, but I dont get why you couldnt do it and apply a conscious hinge action, clubface manipulation. Maybe I dont fully understand what constitutes a true swing, I think it to be a CF induced Throwout with an unbridled Horizontal Hinge resulting. I dunno.

Restricted to True CF Swings because the Left Arm and Clubshaft are Longitudinally Aligned during the Downstroke and Release and only CF can Uncock the Left Wrist while simultaneously Unbending the Left Wrist with both actions and keep the Clubshaft and Clubhead remaining on Plane and Pointing at the Same Plane Line (Trace). It takes big Cahoonas to keep the Left Palm Facing (Paddlewheeling) the ball all of the way to Impact. Though CF uncocks and rolls the Left Wrist Simultaneously, and you may learn to trust this, it's truly a weird sensation. Any, even the most minor attempt, to interfere with CF, completely wrecks the Strike. Your Left Palm actually passes the ball before uncocking and Rolling begins. So, you Hit the Ball with the Palm of your Left Hand. Snap-Release.

Like Ed said; great compression. And, the Swoosh occurs only one foot before the ball. So, it's Swoosh-Crack. A true three dimensional Impact. I can't get the sound any other way.

Throwaway Prevention:
I think that HK said that 10-18-B "inhibits" Clubhead Throwaway because of what happens when the Left Wrist returns to "Flat and Vertical".

The Clubshaft (secondary lever) can slam into the Primary Lever (left Arm and Clubshaft) in a way that the Left Wrist Cannot Re-Bend. I could show you and you'll be doing it in 10 seconds but I don't think I can explain it.

Anyway, I don't think that the above is the Hogan Swing. He Released too early and I think he used the Non-Automatic Version. eh? but what do I know?

[O.B.Left]

Dude, Im so VApid too but I love it when you say "eh?". Ah those chi hawks have nice jerseys eh? For sure. Patrick Kaine.

There is a lot of meat there, even for a guy like me who likes to BBQ naked but I honestly dont see the early release for Mr Hogan. It's a cool observation though given his "three right hands" comment and all. Maybe you got something there. I dunno.

Thanks for the very insightful reply.

[O.B.Left]

Ya know; if we take Hogan seriously about what he said and did on the Ed Sullivan Show, then I don't understand how anyone could confuse him with a Hitter. Or, at least a Hitter as defined by TGM. There are some who have "re-defined" Hitter to mean anyone who "fires" through Release and Impact; whatever the heck that's supposed to mean. It can mean anything.

This is what Im wondering about right now too. This is worthy of a separate thread I think. Can you rope handle it back and then down in transition and then axe handle an on plane right hand throw? Call me crazy.

[Daryl]

This is what Im wondering about right now too. This is worthy of a separate thread I think. Can you rope handle it back and then down in transition and then axe handle an on plane right hand throw? Call me crazy.

6-C-2-B ANGULAR ACCELERATION The Clubhead “overtaking” speed is governed by the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum whereby the increased Mass resulting from any extension of the Swing Radius decelerates the hands and unless they are supported by Power Package Thrust (6-B-1) or Throw Out Action (2-K), can result in great loss of Clubhead Speed. Rely on Clubhead Lag to meter out the necessary support for the Primary Lever Assembly.

How can you feel pressure against the Right Hand when the Upper Left Arm Doesn't move Away from the Chest during Release and Impact?

Besides: we all KNOW, that to FEEL (the brain to sense) any Right Hand pressure that it must occur long before the FEELING was sensed.

The "extension of the Swing Radius" in the above quote is the Left Hand moving away from the Pivot Center (Head). Generally, for Swingers, Hip Action Throws the Power Package at Release (Flywheel); Shoulder Throw (Primary Lever), which in turn, Wrist Throw (Secondary Lever).

You can Feel this effect under the following Conditions: The #4 Accumulator (Left Arm Across the Chest), using a stiff Left Arm (push), as it moves away from the Chest in a Sweep Release during the Downstroke, while maintaining a strong sense (real) of Pivot Lag and using the #2 Pressure Point to sense Clubhead Lag.

In a Sweep Release, Hip Action begins at Start Down and therefore, does not spin a Flywheel at Release (Hence, no sit-down in Hogans Pivot). It Throws the Left Arm (the Power Package including the Right Arm) during the Downstroke. The Down, in the Downstroke is minor.

The Pressure that Hogan felt in his Right Hand was the Slowing of the Left Hand. This is my Theory of the Three Right Hands.

eh..by the way, this is Pivot Controlled Hands.

[dss]

Who is that in these pictures? It is not Mr. Hogan...